Problem developed - Triangle!

[SpeedyG40]

I need help on my 2002 Prius.

I disconnected my 12V battery for 2 weeks while I was working on cleaning out the air filter box. Leaves got in there from the careless previous owner. I did the job, reconnected the 12 V battery and started the car.

Within 10 seconds the engine quit as if it ran out of gas. The triangle! is flashing. No matter how many times I have tried (10 times) the engine starts runs nice then shuts off like clockwork at the 10 second runtime mark. The car was running perfect before the battery disconnect. I don't have a OBDII that can read factory codes. What is the likely cause? I already looked at my throttle body and it moves well.
Any thoughts? Thanks!

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by SpeedyG40

...No matter how many times I have tried (10 times) the engine starts runs nice then shuts off like clockwork at the 10 second runtime mark.

I doubt that the engine has started. It's more likely that MG1 is spinning the engine but the engine has not actually started. Then an error code is logged after sufficient time elapses.

Besides the red triangle warning light, what other warning lights appear? How about the MFD, do you see warning icons on the screen? If so which one is highlighted?

Is the 12V battery in good condition? If not fully charged, maybe you should disconnect the battery from the vehicle, charge it, then reconnect and see if that helps.

Engine no-start can be caused by insufficient air flow (so check the work that you had just done to make sure there's no blockage from the air intake snorkel to the throttle body), bad spark plugs, engine oil viscosity or oil level too high.

Regarding the throttle body, the issue is not so much whether the throttle plate moves or not. The issue is whether the interior of the throttle body and the throttle plate are covered with black deposits. If so, then they need to be cleaned off.

What is your fuel tank level? If low, then lack of fuel is an obvious issue to check.

If you are certain that none of those items are at fault, then you'll need to have the codes read to see what the problem is.

[SpeedyG40]

Originally Posted by Patrick Wong

I doubt that the engine has started. It's more likely that MG1 is spinning the engine but the engine has not actually started. Then an error code is logged after sufficient time elapses.

Besides the red triangle warning light, what other warning lights appear? How about the MFD, do you see warning icons on the screen? If so which one is highlighted?

Is the 12V battery in good condition? If not fully charged, maybe you should disconnect the battery from the vehicle, charge it, then reconnect and see if that helps.

Engine no-start can be caused by insufficient air flow (so check the work that you had just done to make sure there's no blockage from the air intake snorkel to the throttle body), bad spark plugs, engine oil viscosity or oil level too high.

Regarding the throttle body, the issue is not so much whether the throttle plate moves or not. The issue is whether the interior of the throttle body and the throttle plate are covered with black deposits. If so, then they need to be cleaned off.

What is your fuel tank level? If low, then lack of fuel is an obvious issue to check.

If you are certain that none of those items are at fault, then you'll need to have the codes read to see what the problem is.

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for your reply. The engine does actually start and like clockwork, shuts down around the 10 second mark. After reading the service manual about this phenomenon, I found that the ECU induces engine shut off (for protection-yeah thanks!) when something is not right. I will know more after I scan the OBDII codes. I will post my findings after I do.

Incidentally, my fuel tank is around 1/2 full, yet when the battery is connected it reads empty. This may be part of the issue. More to come...

[morsemp]

I had this problem with mine when I let the 12v battery go too low (it was also old). The car was not run in 3 days, I bought a new 12v battery and tried to start the car, started up and then stopped with the triangle of death. So I started it again and while the ICE was running, I floored it so the ICE had to run. The traction batteries were really low, but I eventually got them back up and now the car works fine. Hope it isnt too late for you.

[bwilson4web]

Patrick hit all the major points but I'm interested in your fuel level not showing up. Also, what is the 'rest' voltage on the 12 V battery? Just turn the car 'on' but don't try to start it and measure the voltage with all of the systems 'on'.

There is one other but obscure hypothesis, the throttle position encoder but I know of only one other to occur. Still, the NHW11 seem plagued by these variable pot problems.

Then there is the squirrel hypothesis. Sometimes our rodent friends decide engine compartments are great places to set up house and they love to chew on wires.

Bob Wilson

[SpeedyG40]

Ok, I sprung for the factory scan tool and it is opening up a new world for me. The things that can be viewed on it are beyond great. For example, every cell voltage in the traction battery as well as internal resistance for each. State of charge (SOC) of the traction battery is also a useful parameter. There must be over one hundred things that can be monitored real time.

In short, the issue that caused the problem I had, which started this thread, was a low SOC on the main traction battery.

I think it would have been near impossible to get my car running without the factory tool.

Just having it plugged into the car (meter not even turned on) clears the malfuction indicator lamp (MIL) on the dash (code stays in memory).

Oh incidentally, the fuel level indicator takes around 2 min of run time to read properly after 12V battery is reconnected.

More to share later...

[mrmose]

I replaced the origional 12 volt in my 2001 this past weekend. When I reconnected, I got the following:
Red triangle of death,
check engine light
one bar on gas level (it was fiull)
rectangle on MFS with car sign and !

I googled and one site said if you turn on and off 4 times, it will reset. I did this and all but the check engine light went off and the car ran fine. I drove it around the block and the check engine light went off.

My wife drove it to work on Manday and half way there, she got all of the warning lights that I got after the battery replacement. She called me and said the car was running fine and went to work. When she left to come home, she started the car and got all of the warning lights. but the car was running fine and then half way home, she said the brake light also came on and it felt like someone was appplying the brakes.

I came to rescue her and drove the car home my self. I almost got home and the brake deal happened to me. I had the car towed to the dealer who told me yesterday that it was a bad drive battery and the replacement cost is $4,598.63, but that Toyota is picking up the tab on my 2001 with 94K miles.

Up until this, the car has been great, but I was thinking about a newer prius since the battery was approaching 9 years old and I knew it would die one day. At this point, I believe we will keep it and see how many more miles it will go.

Any thoughts or comments on our new "lets keep it" plan?????

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by SpeedyG40

...In short, the issue that caused the problem I had, which started this thread, was a low SOC on the main traction battery.

I think it would have been near impossible to get my car running without the factory tool...

I'm wondering what you did to get your car running. Did you replace the traction battery?

Originally Posted by mrmose

... I had the car towed to the dealer who told me yesterday that it was a bad drive battery and the replacement cost is $4,598.63, but that Toyota is picking up the tab on my 2001 with 94K miles.

Up until this, the car has been great, but I was thinking about a newer prius since the battery was approaching 9 years old and I knew it would die one day. At this point, I believe we will keep it and see how many more miles it will go.

Any thoughts or comments on our new "lets keep it" plan?????

Seems reasonable. The other major parts that you have to worry about failing include the transaxle, inverter, and steering gear.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by SpeedyG40

Ok, I sprung for the factory scan tool . . .

Where did you get it and how much?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

[ca02prius]

Originally Posted by mrmose

I had the car towed to the dealer who told me yesterday that it was a bad drive battery and the replacement cost is $4,598.63, but that Toyota is picking up the tab on my 2001 with 94K miles.

I'd like to know how you got the dealer to spring for the $4,598.63! I was dismayed to have to pay $1,681.12 (after discount coupon) to replace engine ECU and gas tank at 90K for my 2002 Prius (codes 3191 & 3101/PO440).

Having never had any problems prior to that, I guess I just never learned how to work with the service dept.