VW vs Toyota for reliability?

[Bob Allen]

I remember a time when a Volkswagen was, like Toyota is now, an insurance policy against maintenance woes. I owned three Beetles and a Rabbit over my course of ownership with VW; the Beetles performed very well with nothing more than the usual maintenance. I bought the Rabbit new in 1975; first model year, and it was not nearly as high in quality as the 1969 Beetle it replaced.
My question is whether VW has actually declined in reliabiltiy compared to Toyota. This is addressed to you folks who might also own a VW. My partner has a 2002 Jetta TDI with about 65k on it and has almost no problems. We sometimes get into "who's the coolest environmentally" car rivalry: he is making his own bio diesel and I am driving a super low emission hybrid. I was seriously considering buying a Jetta because, well, you can buy one rather than wait for one. I think others folks on the waiting list might also be considering an alternative. Feedback from VW owners might help even if this is a prejudiced chat line.
Bob

[bookrats]

My question is whether VW has actually declined in reliabiltiy compared to Toyota.

I can't comment personally; but I do recommend you take a look at the Consumer Reports reliability charts for VWs. While I have mixed feelings about other aspects of C.R.'s car reviews, I've found their data on car reliability (Taken from their membership over the years) extremely useful.

Actually, I looked at the CR reliability data on a couple of VW models (particularly those that had diesel engines); it was not generally very good. The Golf showed a large number of problems even after 2 years; I think the Jetta was similar.

On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a diesel Golf this year; he felt the poor C.R. data reflected problems with much earlier Golf models, and that the newer models (which have been significantly redesigned) do not have these problems. He also felt that using the older data for older models in C.R.'s "reliability calculation" didn't really reflect the new model's reliability.

I can see where he's coming from, but for myself, I'd rather have both long-term and short-term data, and figure it out for myself.

[jchu]

I don't own a VW but my father-in-law does. It too is a Jetta TDI, though I think that it is 1-2 years older that your partner's. Hasn't had any problems the last couple of years but it did have a rocky start: including an engine fire due to a loose wire and a total engine failure in the 1st 2 years. All covered under warranty and no problems since but a pain in the neck at the time.

We actually looked at the Jetta TDI ourselves but after discussing the above problems and not knowing about the tailpipe emissions including particulates (a problem with many diesels) we opted for the Prius instead. Availibility was about equal for both in our area. I seem to recall that Consumers Report also does not have much nice to say about VW reliability.

Jon

[Raenstoirm]

My mother-in-law had a new bug. It was horrible with reliability. She sold it a few years after she bought it after the repairs were more expensive than the cost of the car. That is the only experience I have with VW.

[siai]

Well, I guess I'll try to answer this one, as I own both a '04 and an '02 Prius and a '01 VW Jetta TDI. The short answer is that to date, the Toyota's have been more reliable then the Jetta. Nothing bad enough to make me not want to own a Jetta, but just a few problems. The TDI's have been suffering from carbon build-up in the intake manifolds due to the EGR system and the PCV system design. There is a mixture of oil-laden air entering upstream of the EGR valve. When the air hits the exhaust gas in the intake, a oily sludge forms that almost plugs the intake around the 50k mile mark. There is an easy workaround to fix this problem. Mass airflow sensors have been another problem area (short service life). VW is now warranting them for 70K miles. Also, short timing belt life (50K miles on automatics, 60K miles on manuals). A timing belt failure can destroy a lot of parts in the engine. The timing belt change is difficult and expensive but the replacement belts have a longer service life. The worst thing about owning a VW is having to deal with a dealer for service. I think, as a group, they have to be the worst in the business. When the Jetta is running right, it's great---I'll bet your partner is getting similar fuel economy to your Prius---probably a little better then you on the highway and a little worse then you in the city if he has a 5-speed. Everything you want to know (and some things you might not want to know) about Jetta TDI's are on www.tdiclub.com or for non-diesel VW's at www.vwvortex.com.

[Wolfman]

Volkswagen has had it's share of issues. It's been my understanding that the lion share of the massive problems have been related to power window regulators, and the coil packs used on the VR6 and 1.8T engines. Timing belts are now up to a 100k service interval on new vehicles.

VW has apparently been working on the problems, and has been warranting the repairs with redesigned parts. New power window regluators were issued last summer, and redesigned coil packs were issued via recall shortly thereafter. The MAF sensor is an updated part as well.

A friend of mine has a Golf TDI, and has had very good luck with it. As for VW products, I look at them the same as I do a domestic one - buy the most basic model you possibly can. Doing so will eliminate the majority if issues that effect their products.

[DonDNH]

and the coil packs used on the VR6 and 1.8T engines.

A coworker wanted to buy a new Passat (last year). After extensive research into the car and problems that owners were experiencing, he changed his mind and bought a Honda Accord.

The coil problems were the killer for him. It seems that the manufacturer of the coil was implementing VW's design and told them that the coils would fail prematurely. VW didn't listen to them and went ahead with production. Owners were experiencing failures repeatedly. Some coils failed even before the car's repair was completed. Dealers were installing replacements at such a high rate, the supply of coils dried up and cars were sitting waiting for parts.

If VW hasn't replaced every coil in those cars, which cover several years, they're going to have a generation of buyers that won't be back.

[jamarimutt]

I traded a 2002 GTI 1.8T for my 2004 Prius. The GTI is a very nice car; handles great, acceletares great, interior materials quality is much better than the Prius' and the car has a number of standard features that are optional or unavailable in the Prius. Overall it is a "better" car.

However, in 23,000 miles the regulators of both windows failed (five trips to the dealer), the radio stopped working once (one trip), the battery failed (one trip), and the gasoline pump failed (two trips). I was supposed to change the coil pack but I traded the car in after the dealer (and service shop) closest to our house went out of business.

Toyota reliability is better, much better.

[pantherdau]

First of all. I love VW's. I have had several, including two Rabbits of yesteryear. My last VW was a 2002 Jetta wagon. I initially loved the car but tired of it soon after having to make repeated trips to the dealer to have various issues dealt with - inoperable sunroof 2X, broken console, dead battery, inoperable fuel filler door, clogged fuel injectors. All of those things were fixed under warranty, but in a car with less than 20,000 miles, it did not feel like I was driving a new car at all. I have since switched to a new Prius which has been amazing. I really feel as if I'm driving a reliable, well thought-out new vehicle. Therefore, I do not recommend that you spend your hard earned money on a VW. For a similar amount of money, you can have a Prius!

[pantherdau]

Disregard this posting please.