Hidden Hybrid Automobile Dangers, What You Should Know About EMFs?????

[Danny Hamilton]

Originally Posted by ELZBETHKW

Okay, enough with the jokes already. Is there any scientific data to either support or debunk the story that EMFs given off in a Prius are dangeous to my health?. . . .

No, which explains the reason for the jokes.

[Ichabod]

Originally Posted by ELZBETHKW

Okay, enough with the jokes already...

You're absolutely right. Starting with post #1.

And the explanation for products already being marketed to people to "cure" this problem: People will do anything to make a buck. They really would sell you a tinfoil hat if it weren't so easy to make one on your own.

[chogan2]

Originally Posted by ELZBETHKW

Okay, enough with the jokes already. Is there any scientific data to either support or debunk the story that EMFs given off in a Prius are dangeous to my health? I see where some company is marketing silicon disks the size of saucers to fit over the modules of the batteries at $65 each. So what's the deal with that?

I approached this with an open mind when it was posted a few months (?) back. After some research, I was convinced there was nothing to it.

You're getting silly answers largely because you have a bunch of well-informed engineers and other people with good technical knowledge of the subject who are sure that the levels of EMF and magnetic fields in a Prius are not merely low enough to be of little concern, the plausible risk is so ludicrously low that they can't help but poke fun at anybody who thinks there's a risk. And also, frankly, because the true believers in EMF-related health problems have a higher-than-average tendency to fit into the tin-foil-hat stereotype. Not that EMF is not a legitimate issue for discussion as a public health issue, but that the available evidence in most cases is at best ambiguous (ie., the effects can't be distinguished from normal random variation in health status).

So, basically, every N weeks somebody reposts this, sincerely concerned, and they have to educate folks all over again. It was my turn last time to have a little sense pounded into me. Here's the thread I was thinking of:

NY times article on "health risks" from driving hybrids

There are two issues. One is (static, unvarying or slowly varying) magnetic fields, the other is electromagnetic fields (EMFs) as in radio waves. Both can induce electrical currents in tissue (if you move through a magnetic field it will create the current). For practical purposes I see no point in not combining the two.

Induced currents at very high level, over long periods will have an effect on tissues. There's a medical device called a bone growth stimulator that does exactly that, for treating bone fractures that refuse to heal. But those are very targeted, very specific, and very long-term exposures.

For reference, the earth's magnetic field might typically have a strength of 500 milligauss. I found one reference that looked at magnetic fields in the Prius and found 14 milligauss in the back seat (near the battery cables, likely). Others have said 28 milligauss. FWIW, here's somebody who measured a lot of cars, including the Prius. The Prius is by no means out of line with the rest of the data:

http://www.eiwellspring.org/EMFMeasu...sAndTrucks.htm

You have to take that with a grain of salt, as several of the contributors here have pointed out that measuring EMFs accurately is kind of hard to do. The measurements were done by different individuals.

But here's a reference to a different set of measurements, presumably more uniform, and again, the Prius looks just like any other car. (You have to follow a link in that thread to see the data).

The cost of Gas , Hybrid cars and EMFs - Mike Holt's Forum

This is also in line with what Toyota says, as quoted in the recent NY Times article on this subject:

"In a statement, Toyota said: “The measured electromagnetic fields inside and outside of Toyota hybrid vehicles in the 50 to 60 hertz range are at the same low levels as conventional gasoline vehicles. Therefore there are no additional health risks to drivers, passengers or bystanders.”
The statement adds that the measured E.M.F. in a Prius is 1/300th of the European guideline."

The 50/60 hertz range is the frequency for European and US household current.


So until you see hard data to the contrary, based on what I see here, the Prius is no different from any other car, and better than most, in terms of the EMF levels.

To put this in perspective, the reason you're hearing about MRIs here is that the field in and around an MRI is about, what, getting close to 100,000 times as strong as the earth's magnetic field. And hospital staff work around those fields day after day. No cancer epidemic among radiology techs, so I conclude that the magnetic fields in a Prius have to be a non-issue.

To put it further into perspective, you can google up the EMF emissions of many houshold appliances. Standing near many appliances will expose you to higher EMF levels than sitting in a Prius. And, in terms of the epidemiology of it, it should be your total daily exposure that would be the cause for concern. Of which, your exposure from a Prius would be one part.

Putting a radio transmitter (ie, cell phone) up next to your head for hours a day, well, maybe there are and maybe there aren't measurable health effects there. The official US position is no effect, but I've seen non-US studies that are not so sure. I don't think children should use cell phones, just to be on the safe side.

But if the EMFs in a car are a hazard, then the Prius is no more of a hazard than the typical car. And it's in line with your daily exposure from many other sources.

[ELZBETHKW]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking the time to re-hash this non-issue for me, and my elderly Mom will sleep better knowing that I'm not being overly zapped with EMFs.

[abq sfr]

The proof of emf health effects is out there, you just gotta know where to look! A group of electro-sensitive people in Santa Fe are allergic to emf from WiFi hotspots, with symptoms such as headaches, chest pain, and numbness, it's a medical fact. They are trying to ban WiFi hotspots in SF city buildings. In addition to the cell-phone ban in Santa Fe and the WiFi hotspot ban, now there will be a Prius ban if this info gets around! I wonder if quartz crystals negate the harmful effects? Maybe I'll move to Santa Fe and open a rock shop.
KOB.com - Group wants Wi-Fi banned from public buildings

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by abq sfr

The proof of emf health effects is out there, you just gotta know where to look! A group of electro-sensitive people in Santa Fe are allergic to emf from WiFi hotspots, with symptoms such as headaches, chest pain, and numbness, it's a medical fact. They are trying to ban WiFi hotspots in SF city buildings. In addition to the cell-phone ban in Santa Fe and the WiFi hotspot ban, now there will be a Prius ban if this info gets around! I wonder if quartz crystals negate the harmful effects? Maybe I'll move to Santa Fe and open a rock shop.
KOB.com - Group wants Wi-Fi banned from public buildings

[ghildenbrand]

Okay, first I do not own a tinfoil hat or know anyone who does; in fact, I am a published epidemiologist. I believe in the scientific method. Therefore, I report an observation without a structured hypothesis (because this is new to me): Our 2009 Prius has 36000 miles on it, and we love it. We have used a $3 suction-cup mounted globe compass for most of our miles, and it has functioned normally. It no longer functions, because it is oriented to a field in the car, no matter where in the car we station it, even over the hood or hatchback; it sees north as the passenger side. We can turn in any direction and the compass still reads east. Outside of the car, the compass orients to the global field. Only several events can be temporally associated with this development: a Coleman cooler fuse blew and the in-use Prius-outlet fuse blew. With fuse replacement, power was restored to both. This happened while we were driving in a very cool lightening and thunder storm about 60 miles east of Des Moines IA on I-80. So, the Prius is magnetized. Anyone able to take this cardinal observation and structure a hypothesis?

[donee]

Hi Ghildebrand,,

Here is an interesting article:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a2zPz6QOEeHQ

Do you have earbuds hiding in the glove box ?

Note that the fields associated with these earbuds are like 700 or so times stronger than Earth's Magnetic field, which is stronger than the fields reported in the passenger compartment of the Prius.


You may also know that ship's compass have little magnets within them that are adjusted to cancel out the ship's residual field. These are calibrated on a regular basis to keep the compass usable, as ships are out in lightning storms, and have current flow through them. which may change the ship's residual field.

Check this out:

http://nauticalinformation.blogspot....djustment.html

http://www.practical-sailor.com/mari...djustments.pdf

http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/pdf/chapt06.pdf

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

Originally Posted by ghildenbrand

. . . We have used a $3 suction-cup mounted globe compass for most of our miles, and it has functioned normally. It no longer functions, because it is oriented to a field in the car, no matter where in the car we station it, even over the hood or hatchback; it sees north as the passenger side. We can turn in any direction and the compass still reads east. Outside of the car, the compass orients to the global field. . . .

NEAT! I want one of those!!!

My first thought is you need a 3-axis, compass that points up and down. Think something like a magnized needle on a thread so it can point not only right and left but up and down. Use this to find the strongest North and South pole points in the car. This may in turn lead us to an understanding. But without localization ... what an interesting puzzle.

Originally Posted by ghildenbrand

. . . Only several events can be temporally associated with this development: a Coleman cooler fuse blew and the in-use Prius-outlet fuse blew. With fuse replacement, power was restored to both. This happened while we were driving in a very cool lightening and thunder storm about 60 miles east of Des Moines IA on I-80. So, the Prius is magnetized. Anyone able to take this cardinal observation and structure a hypothesis?

In aviation, particularly welded steel structures, it is not uncommon to find the frame has become magnetized so the magnetic compass has to be calibrated. There are so many ways it can happen, I shudder to guess until we can find the actual orientation.

You might try opening the door to find out if the field follows the door or the door frame. To avoid any cabin light effects, you might 'pull the fuses.'

You don't have a neighbor who is in Real Estate who might have 'accidentally' stuck one of their signs on the door? Perhaps a kid who played with their refrigerator magnets? Once the part is magnitized, the original source can wander off. The list goes on and on.

Just a suggestion, this might more properly belong in the Gen II technical forum. You might also look up "degausser".

Bob Wilson

[F8L]

When we are monitoring our preserves we have to stand well away from metal fence posts or else the compass needle will pull towards the fence post and give false readings.