Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

[Jasonsprite]

FYI .Read and come to your own conclusions.

Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats -- latimes.com

[ceric]

What puzzles me is why those people claimed they failed to shift to 'N'.
Why? Sure, the engine would rev pass red light and engine power would get cut off.
So what? At least one still have the power assist braking and steering.

Now we know that the Power button may be confusing to most in a emergency situation.

[The Electric Me]

What has happened is truly tragic.

It seems to me, Toyota needs to provide an immediate and intuitive shut off method. Holding the power button for 3 seconds is not an acceptable method. 3 seconds can be an enternity. As the article pointed out, in a panic situation someone uninformed or simply unaware could easily press the power button without waiting for the 3 second count.

Seems to me the safest and easiest way would be to remove the 3 second delay. The other option would be inclusion of a totally seperate, easily reached Emergency Power Cut button.

"Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed."-From The Article.

I don't particularly like this fix as I think it could lead to people accidently cutting power. Unintended power loss can be as dangerous as unintended acceleration. I think you would just be trading one problem for another. So I don't like this idea.

[macmaster05]

the solution is simple; ejection seat.

[Fujisan]

First of all may I say I am very sorry for the family and friends of this family.

But, the bottom line is, trained Police Officer or not, the guy panicked.

If a member of his family had time to call the emergency services on his cellphone, the driver had time to look down and select neutral and / or keep his finger on the power switch to kill the engine.

On the matter of the power switch, I can see why Toyota (and probably other's) build a three second delay into the power switch, the last thing you need travelling down the freeway is touching the power switch by accident and killing the engine.

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by The Electric Me

..."Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed."-From The Article.

I don't particularly like this fix as I think it could lead to people accidently cutting power. Unintended power loss can be as dangerous as unintended acceleration. I think you would just be trading one problem for another. So I don't like this idea.

I see nothing wrong with the proposed solution. "Cut power" can mean that engine rpm is reduced to idle speed when the brake pedal is depressed. This does not have to mean that the engine is turned off.

The article also offered a good insight about how the brake power assist could potentially disappear with the engine at full throttle and the vacuum booster depleted if the driver pumped the brake pedal more than a couple of times. (This particular issue is not applicable to Prius BTW.)

Before this became a big issue publicized worldwide, I would say that only a very few Prius Chat members would be able to recall and apply the knowledge that you must hold the POWER button down for at least three seconds before the power will go off, when faced with an emergency situation. Further, a few 2G forum members have reported that the POWER button must be held down for a much longer period of time to shut down if their combination meter ECU is not functioning, so the 3 second rule is not guaranteed to work regardless of circumstance.

I think that the current program to remove the 2G driver's side mat or secure it with plastic ties is a waste of time for all involved.

[Rokeby]

I have been closely following the various threads about "runaways,"
and their possible/alleged causes. All the comments have been very
helpful in getting an academic understanding of what steps can
be taken.

I've never had reason to try to shut the car down when at highway
speeds. Well, now I do: I need to know/experience for myself in a
non-emergency situation what will happen.

I'll have to do a test, under simulated "runaway" conditions. It's going
to be difficult to find a pretty much deserted section of
highway/beltway. Maybe, in the middle of the night.

My plan:
When there are few/no cars behind me;
Get up to 60 mph, press hard on the go pedal to create an increasing
RPM condition...
Shift into Neutral, see what happens.

Go back into Drive, and back up to 60 mph, again press hard on the go
pedal to create an increasing RPM condition...
Hold the Power Button in, and see what happens, and how long it
takes to take effect.

I think we all, Gen II and Gen III drivers alike, should consider trying
something like this ASAP, as finding safe conditions permits.

[BRK]

Does the Lexus 350 also have a push button starter? Not sure why his first instinct wasn't to kill the engine but I'm sure it was impossible to think straight in that senerio. Makes me think I should put a label by the power switch to depress for 3 seconds to kill engine in an emergency.

Edit: Looks like on Edmunds they show it as available. Better make a label and explain to the Wife.

[qbee42]

I can see why Toyota doesn't want the Power button to be instant off. That would cause problems too. I would keep the 3 second delay, but also add a "multiple press off" mode to the button. Someone in a panic trying to power down will most likely do one of the following to the Power button:

1) Press it and hold it down for dear life.

2) Go press-press-press-press "WHY DOESN'T THIS THING TURN OFFFFFF..."

Hold it down - off, press twice in quick succession - off.

This is a fix that could be done in firmware. Adding another button is a redesign.

Tom

[BRK]

Originally Posted by Rokeby

I'll have to do a test, under simulated "runaway" conditions. It's going
to be difficult to find a pretty much deserted section of
highway/beltway. Maybe, in the middle of the night.

My plan:
When there are few/no cars behind me;
Get up to 60 mph, press hard on the go pedal to create an increasing
RPM condition...
Shift into Neutral, see what happens.

Go back into Drive, and back up to 60 mph, again press hard on the go
pedal to create an increasing RPM condition...
Hold the Power Button in, and see what happens, and how long it
takes to take effect.

I think we all, Gen II and Gen III drivers alike, should consider trying
something like this ASAP, as finding safe conditions permits.

I'd love to know if you lose all braking when you kill the engine. Please post what happens if you do this test.