Tire Upgrade

[nyprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomKahn @ Jun 27 2006, 01:30 PM) [snapback]277445[/snapback]</div>

I upgraded to using 205/60 R15 Falken Ziex Ze 512 and I am very happy with them at $43 each.

You can see them at: http://www.edgeracing.com/2005/Toyota/Prius/tires/15/
Falken Ziex Ze 512
205/60R15 20.1Lbs. 420 Treadwear UHPAS H Rated The Falken Ziex 512 received first place in a comparison test done by a leading consumer magazine. One of our best sellers due to its high treadwear More...
Stock Status: Usually Ships Within 24 Hours.

Great in the rain, Better in the dry, Good in the snow. This mod did more for better handling then the bt brace or any other mod. I recommend highly.

Tommy Kahn
[/b]

Looks like a great tire. At 850 RPM, it's very close to the OEM (855). With 6.7" tread, it probably looks and handles great. Based on tread design, the TT would do better in the rain and snow. But I paid $97 each for the TT's at Sears. At $43 with a 60K warrenty (vs 80K for the TT), the Falken's are a great deal. I'm glad to hear again that 205's work on the Prius. I bet they look cool!

[theorist]

NYPrius, I respect your choice of tires. I was just struck by how many posters only refer to the all-season goodyears and michelins as alternatives to the OEM integrities. If I didn't use snow tires, I may well have chosen the Tripletreds myself. It sounds like they are terrific tires, perhaps better classified as performance or touring all seasons if not for the excellent treadwear.

My main reason for prefering tires with great traction and handling is the same reason I prefer ABS, VSC, and air bags. I don't use them often, but I value very highly them in very rare emergencies or close calls.

[nyprius]

Thanks Theorist. Safety was my main concern too. Driving on the highway with the Integrities during a snow storm can be a real nail biter!

Being somewhat perfectionist, I did a lot of research on the tire issue. I read many tire threads on PC. While the HE, TT, and CT seemed to be mentioned the most, other tires where suggested, including Yokahama, Toyo, Bridgestone, Nokian, Falken and several others. I liked the TT's but I don't want to sound like a salesperson for them. There are many tires that work well on the Prius.

Based on my research, my main suggestions for someone considering replacing the Integrities are:

1. Do it, even if the Integrities aren't worn out. Replacing them with high quality all season (standard or performance) tires will vastly improve performance and safety.

2. Upgrade to the correct tire size -- 195. Like rear drum brakes, 185 width tires are sub-optimal for the Prius. A 195/60R15 works well, as would a 205/60R15. 195/55R16 might be the best if you want to change rims.

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Jun 27 2006, 12:46 AM) [snapback]276822[/snapback]</div>

The problem was it didn’t come in the OEM size. I originally had a strong preference for sticking with the OEM size. However, as I researched it, I saw that Europe, Australia and Japan (where the Prius is designed and built) use a 195 width tire. The Prius is designed for a 195, not a 185 tire. I assume the US got a cheaper tire to keep costs down, in the same way we got rear drum brakes, while most other places get rear disk brakes. Alternatively, knowing the US appetite for more and better things, the US Prius may have been intentionally dumbed down (ie: narrow tires, rear drum brakes, front seats with no height adjustment, etc) so future Prius’s could be easily spruced up, thus prompting turnover among Prius owners who want the best.
[/b]

Above is not true.
In Japan (the 2nd largest Prius market)...
- Both types of tires, 185/65R15 and 195/55R16.
- All Prius come with the rear drum brakes.

Ken@Japan

[amped]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theorist @ Jun 26 2006, 09:46 PM) [snapback]277218[/snapback]</div>

I'm a little confused as to why so many priuschatters seem to only be considering tires marketed as standard all season tires like the Goodyear Assurance Tripletreds or Comfortreds or the Michelin X or Hydroedge. I agree that they are the best among a crowd of otherwise lousy tires.

What I don't understand is why I don't hear more people comparing any of these with all season performance or touring tires like Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S, Dunlop SP Sport A2 Plus, Yokohama H4S, Continental ContiProContact, Bridgestone RE-960as, Toyo TPT, Falken ZE-512, or Sumitomo H4?

Are people only considering the tires in Consumer Reports latest tire test, which restricted itself to standard all season market segment, and so not considering any touring or performance tires? Are they only looking at tires with the longest treadwear?
[/b]

I don't read CR. Search for my posts (unless they were lost during crashes) about some of the brands you listed that I've tested on five different 2G Prii since 2003. I also tested a set of GY TT and won't buy them again.

As I've posted before, my priorities are active and passive safety through improved grip under all conditions. Oh yeah, and fun driving on twisty mountain roads. With proper tires and sport spec alignment, Prius can be tuned toward sports sedan dynamics within the limits of the econobox trailing beam suspension.

[nyprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Jun 28 2006, 01:13 AM) [snapback]277903[/snapback]</div>

Above is not true.
In Japan (the 2nd largest Prius market)...
- Both types of tires, 185/65R15 and 195/55R16.
- All Prius come with the rear drum brakes.

Ken@Japan
[/b]

Ken, I wasn't saying the 185 wouldn't work on the Prius. Obviously it does. I read in many places that the Prius comes standard with 195 tires in Europe, Australia and Japan. I was able to confirm this on the EU and Australia websites. But since I can't read Japanese and couldn't find an English version of the Japan site, I couldn't confirm what I had read in many other places -- that the OEM size in Japan is 195. Apparently you're saying the tires come in both sizes, as they will in the US next year. In Japan, does the base model prius (ie: no options or lowest option package) come with a 185 or 195 tire? My main point is that the 195 is a better tire for the Prius and that upgrading the US Prius to a 195 is no problem. Upgrading is an easy way to improve safety and performance.

Also, in my notes above, I didn't say the Prius came with rear disk brakes in Japan. There was a lot of discussion on PC about why Europe got rear disk brakes and the US got drum brakes. I was only saying rear disk brakes are better than drum brakes, in the same way 195 tires are better than 185. Cheers, Frank

[nyprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(amped @ Jun 28 2006, 01:30 AM) [snapback]277915[/snapback]</div>

I don't read CR. Search for my posts (unless they were lost during crashes) about some of the brands you listed that I've tested on five different 2G Prii since 2003. I also tested a set of GY TT and won't buy them again.

As I've posted before, my priorities are active and passive safety through improved grip under all conditions. Oh yeah, and fun driving on twisty mountain roads. With proper tires and sport spec alignment, Prius can be tuned toward sports sedan dynamics within the limits of the econobox trailing beam suspension.
[/b]

Amped, In researching tires, I read literally hundreds of ratings of the TTs on Tirerack, epinions and 1010tires. The large majority gave the TT the highest possible rating. I don't recall one review out of hundreds that gave it a bad rating.

It sounds like you want a tire that handles well going fast on dry twisty mountain roads. There probably are better tires for that than the TT. But if you wanted a tire that does well on mileage, noise and comfort as well as provides excellent dry, wet and snow traction, what tire would you say is better than the TT? Also, why do you say you wouldn't buy the TT again?

[amped]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Jun 28 2006, 06:14 AM) [snapback]277988[/snapback]</div>

...But if you wanted a tire that does well on mileage, noise and comfort as well as provides excellent dry, wet and snow traction, what tire would you say is better than the TT? Also, why do you say you wouldn't buy the TT again?
[/b]

I agree, the TT is above average for all-season highway tires in all of those areas but one, ride comfort, and that's why I'll pass next time. The trade-off for the 80K tread life warranty is a hard compound and construction that tends to slap at even small road imperfections, sending a jolt into the chassis. Otherwise, it's a fine tire for Prius.

OTOH, all of the high performance all-seasons I've tried had a better ride from the softer compound and usually cost less. Those traded off tread life for grip and lower fuel economy, acceptable compromises for my needs.

Of course I didn't keep any of the Prii long, so maybe the TT's aged better than the performance rubber that some new owners said became noisy after 5K miles.

[nyprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(amped @ Jun 28 2006, 11:04 AM) [snapback]278041[/snapback]</div>

I agree, the TT is above average for all-season highway tires in all of those areas but one, ride comfort, and that's why I'll pass next time. The trade-off for the 80K tread life warranty is a hard compound and construction that tends to slap at even small road imperfections, sending a jolt into the chassis. Otherwise, it's a fine tire for Prius.

OTOH, all of the high performance all-seasons I've tried had a better ride from the softer compound and usually cost less. Those traded off tread life for grip and lower fuel economy, acceptable compromises for my needs.

Of course I didn't keep any of the Prii long, so maybe the TT's aged better than the performance rubber that some new owners said became noisy after 5K miles.
[/b]

Thanks Amped. I can only compare the new TTs to my old Integrities. The TTs seem a little quieter and the impact on bumps seems about the same. Maybe as the TTs get worn in they'll soften up more. Tirerack rated the TT just below the CT on comfort and noise but above all other tires. Consumer reports rated the TT above average on impact. It was above the CT, but just below three other tires.

When looking at tires in stores, I compared the softness of the sidewalls. The TT was pretty soft whereas Bridgestone and a few other tires were very hard. I assume greater sidewall softness translates into better shock absorbtion.

I guess a lot of it is personal preference. For example, I can't be sure the TTs absorb bumps better than the Integrities since I can only go by memory of the Integrities, rather than do a side by side comparison. This shows the weakness of tire opinion sites. I do know I like the overall ride of the TT way better than the integrity. I can see why so many gave it great reviews.

Tire preferences and selection criteria vary person to person. I'm sure there are many different "favorite" tires for the Prius. One thing most would agree on though, replacing the Integrities with a better tire is a good idea.

[Three60guy]

I had also concluded that the OEM tires were not safe in rain nor snow. And the attachment I share with you was created by someone on PriusChat a year ago but was really a wonderful piece of work. So here it is again.

Here is what I used to make up my mind about what tires to use. I finally concluded to use the Goodyear Comfortred Tires. Best compromise between all the variables. And they work really great in snow and rain.

(You may have to modify the font sizes for best viewing of this Excel spreadsheet.)