Enginer PHEV Technical Information

[krousdb]

I have started this thread for those who are interested in the technical details of the Enginer PHEV Conversion kit. I will start with dimensions, weights, ratings, efficiencies, etc... Let me know if there is any specific information you are looking for.

Website
Enginer | Prius Plugin PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion | Hybrid

Current Pricing (as of 9/21/09)
2kWh (for 10 miles): $1995
4kWh (for 20 miles): $3495
DIY: No Batteries $995 Note:$1000 is added for California buyers due to CARB compliant cost (5 Year Warranty and certification cost).


Older version 4kWh kit with Thundersky batteries (missing 2 balancers)


New version 4kWh kit with Mottcell Batteries
Improvements:
* Ventilation fan for charging and discharging
* Charger exhaust to outside directly
* Extra holes for smart key antenna block
* Quick Disconnect from mounting brackets
* Better cooling in DC/DC converter
* Less frequent beeps from the balancers
* Better component layout for installation and service
* Compact Mottcell batteries[/quote]

Battery Carrier Box
Dimensions 32.75 x 20.0 x 6.5
Weight = 21.3 lb

Battery Carrier Cover
Dimensions 33.0 x 20.06 x 0.63
Weight = 11.1 lb

Batteries
There are two different batteries supplied with this kit. Originally both the 2kWh and 4kWh kits were supplied with the Thunder Sky TS-LFP40 with a 40Ah capacity. Recently the height of the battery carrier box was reduced so that the rear deck cover would fit back on. That reduction in height would not allow 4kWh of the Thundersky TS-LFP40 to fit in the battery carrier. So the 39Ah Mott Cell batteries are now provided when a 4kWh kit is ordered.

Battery Capacity (Rated vs. Actual)
- TS-LFP40, rated at 40Ah @ 100% DoD
- Charge started with a pack voltage of 48.0 (assume this is 0% SoC)
- Kill-a-watt meter indicated 10.24kWh to charge to 54.0V (assume this is 100% SoC)
- Charger efficiency is 86.7%
- Charge added to the pack = 10.24*.867 = 8.878kWh
- TS-LFP40 actual capacity = 8878Wh/51.2V/4 = 43.35Ah

Battery Charger
Input 99-121VAC, 45-63Hz / Output 58.2VDC @ 15A
Efficiency = 88.2% using a 6 ft, 12 Gauge extension cord
Efficiency = 86.7% using a 25 ft, 12 Gauge extension cord
Efficiency = 76.6% using a 100 ft, 14 Gauge extension cord
Dimensions 8.0 x 5.38 x 2.75
Weight = 4.3 lb

DC/DC Converter
48-240V 3000W
Factory programmed cut off set at 46v
Voltage output is programmed at factory or by field support personnel through the RJ-45 port. Future enhancement is a user interface that will monitor useage and SOC.
Efficiency (cooling fans off) = 90.8%
Efficiency (cooling fans on) = 88.8%
Dimensions 18.75 x 6.88 x 2.75
Weight = 13.0 lb

Cell Balancers
Chargery DB8 Smart Digital Balancer

- Battery Types: LiPo and LiFe cells
- Cells Monitoring : up to 8
- Displays cell voltage, pack voltage and voltage differential
- Current drain for balancing: 300mA/cell.
- Balance accuracy: <10mv
- Over Charge Protection : 4.22V/cell (LiPo), 3.75V/cell(LiFe)
- Low voltage alarm: 3.00V/cell (LiPo), 2.80V/cell(LiFe)
- Voltage display resolution: 0.001V
- Voltage Detection precision: 0.005V
- Dimensions: 4.52” x 2.67” x 0.59”
- Weight:150g

When connected to a set of 8 batteries, the DB8 will lower the voltage of seven cells to the level of the lowest (eighth) cell. It will perform balancing while charging, idle and discharging. It can discharge 7.2Ah per cell per day. Two DB8's are required for a 2kWh kit. An additional two DB8's are required when upgrading to 4kwh.

Currently, Chargery is working on a DB16 which will balance all 16 cells in the Einginer.us 2kWh pack. One additional DB16 will be required with an upgrade to 4kWh.

Brackets & Cables
Dimensions various
Weight = 8.8 lb

More info to come after the batteries arrive and I can start testing the electronics.

[bluetwo]

I saw a "kit" on the internet one day this week. It seems like it was advertised as costing nearly 10,000 dollars.

Is this something Prius owners can do for a more reasonable amount?

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by bluetwo

I saw a "kit" on the internet one day this week. It seems like it was advertised as costing nearly 10,000 dollars.

Is this something Prius owners can do for a more reasonable amount?

What you saw was for the 5kwh Hymotion kit. The Enginer kit is $1999 for 2kwh or $2999 for he 4kwh kit.

[krousdb]

A question for you techy types. The Enginer.us PHEV kit uses balancers that keep 8 cells in balance. But since there are 16 cells in the 2kwh kit and 32 cells in the 4kwh kit, it is probable that each set of 8 cells will differ in total voltage from one another. For the 4kwh kit, would it make more sense, instead of having two parallel strings of 16 cells in series to have one string with 2 sets of 2x8 cells in parallel. In that case you would have 16 cells balanced at one voltage, and the other 16 at another voltage as opposed to 4 sets of 8 cells at differing voltages.

Or is all of this just a waste of time because during charge and discharge cycles, they all end up getting balanced anyway.

[hobbit]

You'd think a good balancer product would be able to daisy-chain
and act as a unified whole across an arbitrary-sized pack.
.
_H*

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by hobbit

You'd think a good balancer product would be able to daisy-chain
and act as a unified whole across an arbitrary-sized pack.
.
_H*

Yes, a full blown battery management system does that. They cost about $2000. Maybe I could use a balancer to balancer the balancers?

[plugmein2]

Originally Posted by krousdb

Or is all of this just a waste of time because during charge and discharge cycles, they all end up getting balanced anyway.

The balancers are mainly for safety reasons. One: It enhances the performance of the batteries. Two: It makes sure there no defective cells. 3: It provides needed information on the cells condition.

This is why it is a good idea to check your balancers during charging for the first couple of times. Once that has been established, you can be more relaxed about it.

JOANNA

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by plugmein2

The balancers are mainly for safety reasons. One: It enhances the performance of the batteries. Two: It makes sure there no defective cells. 3: It provides needed information on the cells condition.

This is why it is a good idea to check your balancers during charging for the first couple of times. Once that has been established, you can be more relaxed about it.

JOANNA

Joanna,
I don't think that you understood my question. The balancers are only capable of balancing 8 cells. If you have 8 sets of eight cels, how do you assure the each set of eight are balanced with one another?

[drees]

Originally Posted by krousdb

The balancers are only capable of balancing 8 cells. If you have 8 sets of eight cels, how do you assure the each set of eight are balanced with one another?

You can't, unless you manually do it. Jack mentioned in another thread that they are working on a 16-cell balancer...

[plugmein2]

Originally Posted by krousdb

Joanna,
I don't think that you understood my question. The balancers are only capable of balancing 8 cells. If you have 8 sets of eight cels, how do you assure the each set of eight are balanced with one another?

I would think you could simplify this problem like this: Jack says to balance each pack to <.02v for optimum balancing. With time and patience my 2KW pack has achieved this. When I connect my next string of batteries, I will do the same, giving the balancers a chance to do their job.

Having 8 balancers means you have to monitor more batteries and make sure the balancers are doing what they are supposed to do. If all 8 are balanced at the <.02v, then they are all then acting as one and they are depleated evenly. I know you have more overall knowledge about these kits than me, but oversolving a problem might have a more simple solution. I have read that balancing manually is an option, however, that seems like a lot of work.


On another note, I am curious about the function of the converter, as this seems to be the new overheating glich for everyone. Is it supposed to be on all the time or is it supposed to turn on and off as demand increases? So far, my kit has been working perfectly. This is just a genreral question.

JOANNA