Plug-in Conversions Owner's Forum

[bikr357]

A place to share your driving experiences, mileage, and any joys or frustrations regarding Plug-In Conversions 6.1kWh NiMH plug-in conversion.

This is and attempt to both consolidate and provide links to prior discussions on the topic of Plug-In Conversions' system which utilizes large format NiMH batteries from Gold Peak Industries and advanced control systems developed by Ewert Energy Systems. Owners, potential owners and others just interested in discussion of the technology are welcome to contribute.

[bikr357]

I've had the PICC conversion installed since late August of 2009. If you will pardon the length of this post allow me to share a little history on how I, definitely a newbie, came to become an owner of a Plug-In Conversions PHEV.

Possessing some, if not all, of all the characteristics of a Prius owner; Technically minded, Green & CHEAP. I was fortunate enough to arrange to assist in the conversion. I considered this to be a great benefit because at the end of the process I would end up having the only installation in Texas, and wanted to the sure I possessed enough knowledge to at least assist in troubleshooting any problems which might surface.

My actual conversion was done by Steve Woodruff (autobeyours.com) who did the installation in a 2006 Prius which was an insurance salvage. Permit me here to stray a little from the topic; you will find threads all over PriusChat warning of the perils of purchasing a salvaged vehicle especially one as technically advanced as a Prius. I've personally owned many salvaged vehicles over the past 15 years and never had an issue with mechanical issues related to the repairs, insurance or insurance claims (and yes, I've had repaired vehicles totaled, but received fair value from the insurance company without any hassles). One downside to a recycled car is that once totaled, car manufacturer's void all warrantees. However I'm a very cautious buyer who does my own top to bottom inspections on cars and only deals directly with established rebuilders who specialize in rebuilding a specific model or brand of car I'm interested in. Remember the "cheap" comment above, we only buy cars with cash so financing is not an issue for us, then we drive the wheels off our cars so resell value is of less concern.



My wife, who was actually the one looking for a Pruis, is the one who actually discovered PriusChat and through the forums here found AutoBeYours and Steve Woodruff. Steve's shop is in a little farming community in Indiana about 30 minutes north of Louisville, Kentucky and I live 1,400 miles away in Houston, Texas so I had to feel absolutely confident about the transaction.

Close to a month of research into the design and operation of a Prius and numerous emails and phone calls back and forth to Steve proceeded a commitment to purchase . During this same period the first 2010's started arriving on the lots. Now my wife had been wanting a plug-in for years and was holding out until the 2010 model for Toyota's plug-in Prius. A test drive of a 2010 and specifically its limited EV mode left us unimpressed. Then discovering that Toyota would not be delivering a PHEV until late 2010 and then only to fleet purchasers left us in a position where we couldn't wait for Toyota.

So in late June 2009 we made the commitment to purchase a low mileage 2006 Package 7 (every whistle and bell except for leather) from Steve. Now the reconstruction project that was to be our car was a six week endeavor, and within this time period CFC happened and my wife's '99 mini-van which we had been babying for years met a hastily planned demise and was replaced by a new 2009 touring edition. In the course of a week my wife's recycled Prius had become my project car.

Now at the same time I was talking to Steve about the purchase, I was also doing research into the plug-in conversions and was particularly intrigued about the then recently announced ability to run at 70 mph while in EV mode. This level of performance is only available in thought the control system upgrades installed as part of the PICC conversion; but with it there was a lot of concerns and speculation that the system was forcing the MG's to operate outside of their design range or that other damage to the vehicle might result. More research lead me to the conclusion that provided that the ICE was allowed to spin during 70 mph operation, no harm would occur to the MG's or to the car's other systems. Emails and phone calls to Kim Adelman, the Ewert Brothers and to Steve confirmed my own independent conclusion.

Steve's relationship with Kim; Steve had provided some of the cars used in the testing and development of the system (and is now currently doing a 2010 for use in the design of a conversion option for that vehicle), allowed him the ability to purchase and install the system which he was both very eager to do and willing to allow me to participate in the process. As my installation was the first one Steve Woodruff had done solo there was a learning curve, complicated by the fact that Kim Adelman was in the far east at the time. Kim was able to provide phone support during the installation but the time zone difference limited access to Kim to early morning and late evening hours. We took our time and were very methodical in the installation which was accomplished in one very long day. The actual installation and some of my first impressions can be found in the thread "Plug-In Conversions 6.5kw Kit installation".

The installation removes the original battery pack and replaces it with a much larger pack which occupies the space normally occupied by the spare tire and the concealed storage tray. The removed battery pack is returned to PICC who then recycles/reuses the battery cells. The rest of the original OEM systems are retained and augmented with additional system boards to control operation of the system. A German manufactured computer controlled battery charger, a smaller 12 volt trickle charger and additional cooling fans completed the installation. A quarter to a third of the system's cost is tied up in the battery chargers. After two days of testing and charging I started out on the 1,400 mile drive home. As was noted in the previously mentioned thread, there was an issue early during the drive home which resulted in the ICE rapidly changing speed without a variation in forward movement. This was temporarily resolved by disconnecting the hybrid energy manager (HEM) which was one of the two added system boards. The rest of the trip home was uneventful.

A month of commuting followed all without the benefit of the HEM which allows for switching between various modes of operation. As designed, and without any user interaction, the system automatically switches between what they call Short PHEV Mode and hybrid mode depending on the state of charge of the battery pack. The battery pack when fully charged is charged to about 90% of its capacity to maximize the pack's life. Short PHEV Mode is designed to exhaust the battery in 30 miles or less in a blended mode of operation which uses the ICE but favors the MG's until the batter y pack is discharged to about 22% of its total capacity at which time the system converts to a normal charge sustain hybrid operation. Other modes of operation include a Medium and Long PHEV and a True EV mode. The True EV mode allows the ICE to come on only enough to preheat the catalytic converter for emissions control then favors battery usage over the ICE. Acceleration in this mode under pure battery power is much quicker that in can obtain in hybrid mode without forcing the ICE to contribute to the acceleration effort. Should the need arise for an even quicker acceleration, flooring the petal will switch the car to hybrid mode, fire up the preheated ICE and allow maximum acceleration. If this occurs however you have to manually reenter the EV mode. Changing between modes all occurs on the fly, you don't have to stop the vehicle to switch between any of the modes.

The racing ICE issue was successfully resolved last month when Kim Adelman visited our home and personally installed an upgraded HEM which corrected the issue. It turns out that the systems in a 2006 and later Gen II are slightly different than prior years and this difference was the cause of the issue. Some tweaking to the add-on boards and their embedded software corrected the problem. A portion of Kim's visit and our participation in a month meeting of the Houston Hybrid and Hypermilers Club is documented in the thread Sat, Sep 19th, Houston Hybrid and Hypermilers Club

With all boards installed and now operational switching between modes is accomplished through a java application which runs on a PC and with communicates with the CAN bus through a CANdapter. For over half of my last tank I used this to switch to the mode most appropriate to the trip at hand. The reboot time of the PC coupled with the fact I have to set up, disconnect and store the system each time I use it has limited my use of the switching function. I'm looking forward to the upgrade which will eliminate the need for the PC and have the controls displayed on the MFD.

In normal commuting the system has performed well delivering mid to high 70's mpg on the two tanks I've gone through in two months of commuting. The results could have been much higher except there are days when job commitments force me the exhaust the pack and revert to standard hybrid mode over long distances. On those days when I'm not forced into long trips the pack capacity is sufficient to get me to work and back with only the ICE running to preheat the catalytic converter. Because a lot of my trips are relatively short my mileage would have been significantly higher if it were not for this preheat. I'm told the ability to defeat this preheat so the car operates like one with a EV button will also occur in the next upgrade. I can't wait! In my case it should help mpg quite a bit.

So here are the results to date.

[linuxpenguin]

Originally Posted by bikr357

I've had the PICC conversion installed since late August of 2009. If you will pardon the length of this post allow me to share a little history on how I, definitely a newbie, came to become an owner of a Plug-In Conversions PHEV.

Possessing some, if not all, of all the characteristics of a Prius owner; Technically minded, Green & CHEAP. I was fortunate enough to arrange to assist in the conversion. I considered this to be a great benefit because at the end of the process I would end up having the only installation in Texas, and wanted to the sure I possessed enough knowledge to at least assist in troubleshooting any problems which might surface.

My actual conversion was done by Steve Woodruff (autobeyours.com) who did the installation in a 2006 Prius which was an insurance salvage. Permit me here to stray a little from the topic; you will find threads all over PriusChat warning of the perils of purchasing a salvaged vehicle especially one as technically advanced as a Prius. I've personally owned many salvaged vehicles over the past 15 years and never had an issue with mechanical issues related to the repairs, insurance or insurance claims (and yes, I've had repaired vehicles totaled, but received fair value from the insurance company without any hassles). One downside to a recycled car is that once totaled, car manufacturer's void all warrantees. However I'm a very cautious buyer who does my own top to bottom inspections on cars and only deals directly with established rebuilders who specialize in rebuilding a specific model or brand of car I'm interested in. Remember the "cheap" comment above, we only buy cars with cash so financing is not an issue for us, then we drive the wheels off our cars so resell value is of less concern.



My wife, who was actually the one looking for a Pruis, is the one who actually discovered PriusChat and through the forums here found AutoBeYours and Steve Woodruff. Steve's shop is in a little farming community in Indiana about 30 minutes north of Louisville, Kentucky and I live 1,400 miles away in Houston, Texas so I had to feel absolutely confident about the transaction.

Close to a month of research into the design and operation of a Prius and numerous emails and phone calls back and forth to Steve proceeded a commitment to purchase . During this same period the first 2010's started arriving on the lots. Now my wife had been wanting a plug-in for years and was holding out until the 2010 model for Toyota's plug-in Prius. A test drive of a 2010 and specifically its limited EV mode left us unimpressed. Then discovering that Toyota would not be delivering a PHEV until late 2010 and then only to fleet purchasers left us in a position where we couldn't wait for Toyota.

So in late June 2009 we made the commitment to purchase a low mileage 2006 Package 7 (every whistle and bell except for leather) from Steve. Now the reconstruction project that was to be our car was a six week endeavor, and within this time period CFC happened and my wife's '99 mini-van which we had been babying for years met a hastily planned demise and was replaced by a new 2009 touring edition. In the course of a week my wife's recycled Prius had become my project car.

Now at the same time I was talking to Steve about the purchase, I was also doing research into the plug-in conversions and was particularly intrigued about the then recently announced ability to run at 70 mph while in EV mode. This level of performance is only available in thought the control system upgrades installed as part of the PICC conversion; but with it there was a lot of concerns and speculation that the system was forcing the MG's to operate outside of their design range or that other damage to the vehicle might result. More research lead me to the conclusion that provided that the ICE was allowed to spin during 70 mph operation, no harm would occur to the MG's or to the car's other systems. Emails and phone calls to Kim Adelman, the Ewert Brothers and to Steve confirmed my own independent conclusion.

Steve's relationship with Kim; Steve had provided some of the cars used in the testing and development of the system (and is now currently doing a 2010 for use in the design of a conversion option for that vehicle), allowed him the ability to purchase and install the system which he was both very eager to do and willing to allow me to participate in the process. As my installation was the first one Steve Woodruff had done solo there was a learning curve, complicated by the fact that Kim Adelman was in the far east at the time. Kim was able to provide phone support during the installation but the time zone difference limited access to Kim to early morning and late evening hours. We took our time and were very methodical in the installation which was accomplished in one very long day. The actual installation and some of my first impressions can be found in the thread "Plug-In Conversions 6.5kw Kit installation".

The installation removes the original battery pack and replaces it with a much larger pack which occupies the space normally occupied by the spare tire and the concealed storage tray. The removed battery pack is returned to PICC who then recycles/reuses the battery cells. The rest of the original OEM systems are retained and augmented with additional system boards to control operation of the system. A German manufactured computer controlled battery charger, a smaller 12 volt trickle charger and additional cooling fans completed the installation. A quarter to a third of the system's cost is tied up in the battery chargers. After two days of testing and charging I started out on the 1,400 mile drive home. As was noted in the previously mentioned thread, there was an issue early during the drive home which resulted in the ICE rapidly changing speed without a variation in forward movement. This was temporarily resolved by disconnecting the hybrid energy manager (HEM) which was one of the two added system boards. The rest of the trip home was uneventful.

A month of commuting followed all without the benefit of the HEM which allows for switching between various modes of operation. As designed, and without any user interaction, the system automatically switches between what they call Short PHEV Mode and hybrid mode depending on the state of charge of the battery pack. The battery pack when fully charged is charged to about 90% of its capacity to maximize the pack's life. Short PHEV Mode is designed to exhaust the battery in 30 miles or less in a blended mode of operation which uses the ICE but favors the MG's until the batter y pack is discharged to about 22% of its total capacity at which time the system converts to a normal charge sustain hybrid operation. Other modes of operation include a Medium and Long PHEV and a True EV mode. The True EV mode allows the ICE to come on only enough to preheat the catalytic converter for emissions control then favors battery usage over the ICE. Acceleration in this mode under pure battery power is much quicker that in can obtain in hybrid mode without forcing the ICE to contribute to the acceleration effort. Should the need arise for an even quicker acceleration, flooring the petal will switch the car to hybrid mode, fire up the preheated ICE and allow maximum acceleration. If this occurs however you have to manually reenter the EV mode. Changing between modes all occurs on the fly, you don't have to stop the vehicle to switch between any of the modes.

The racing ICE issue was successfully resolved last month when Kim Adelman visited our home and personally installed an upgraded HEM which corrected the issue. It turns out that the systems in a 2006 and later Gen II are slightly different than prior years and this difference was the cause of the issue. Some tweaking to the add-on boards and their embedded software corrected the problem. A portion of Kim's visit and our participation in a month meeting of the Houston Hybrid and Hypermilers Club is documented in the thread Sat, Sep 19th, Houston Hybrid and Hypermilers Club

With all boards installed and now operational switching between modes is accomplished through a java application which runs on a PC and with communicates with the CAN bus through a CANdapter. For over half of my last tank I used this to switch to the mode most appropriate to the trip at hand. The reboot time of the PC coupled with the fact I have to set up, disconnect and store the system each time I use it has limited my use of the switching function. I'm looking forward to the upgrade which will eliminate the need for the PC and have the controls displayed on the MFD.

In normal commuting the system has performed well delivering mid to high 70's mpg on the two tanks I've gone through in two months of commuting. The results could have been much higher except there are days when job commitments force me the exhaust the pack and revert to standard hybrid mode over long distances. On those days when I'm not forced into long trips the pack capacity is sufficient to get me to work and back with only the ICE running to preheat the catalytic converter. Because a lot of my trips are relatively short my mileage would have been significantly higher if it were not for this preheat. I'm told the ability to defeat this preheat so the car operates like one with a EV button will also occur in the next upgrade. I can't wait! In my case it should help mpg quite a bit.

So here are the results to date.

It looks like the reason you're seeing lower mileage is due to the 200+ miles of standard hybrid driving--I don't know how cold it is there these days but the Prius mileage will drop quite a bit in colder temperatures because the ICE has to run more for heat. That, combined with the 200 miles of hybrid driving could account for roughly half the gasoline tank noted above--leaving 600 some odd miles off of 4 to 5 gallons during PHEV / EV mode (which is well over 100 MPG for the duration you traveled with the battery charged).

Andrew

[bikr357]

Originally Posted by linuxpenguin

It looks like the reason you're seeing lower mileage is due to the 200+ miles of standard hybrid driving--I don't know how cold it is there these days but the Prius mileage will drop quite a bit in colder temperatures because the ICE has to run more for heat. That, combined with the 200 miles of hybrid driving could account for roughly half the gasoline tank noted above--leaving 600 some odd miles off of 4 to 5 gallons during PHEV / EV mode (which is well over 100 MPG for the duration you traveled with the battery charged).

Andrew

Only on this most recent tank (the one I'm presently burning) has the temps dropped low enough for the ICE to run to provide heat. When I discovered what was going on I dropped the inside cabin temp to match the exterior and succeeded in keeping the Ice off. If this year is anything like last here in Houston, Winter will be 2 days in January.

Regarding the mileage, when I purchased the pack I was hoping on a 50% improvement, and I've seen that so I'm happy. It's just that I also see that there is potential with just a little more tweaking (like easier access to switching modes and the ability to delay ICE start for very short trips) I could see even more improvement with my mix of driving. I even see the real possibility of a 100% improvement. That would be nice was it would cut my payback period in half (as if that was the reason I did it).

[linuxpenguin]

Originally Posted by bikr357

Only on this most recent tank (the one I'm presently burning) has the temps dropped low enough for the ICE to run to provide heat. When I discovered what was going on I dropped the inside cabin temp to match the exterior and succeeded in keeping the Ice off. If this year is anything like last here in Houston, Winter will be 2 days in January.

Regarding the mileage, when I purchased the pack I was hoping on a 50% improvement, and I've seen that so I'm happy. It's just that I also see that there is potential with just a little more tweaking (like easier access to switching modes and the ability to delay ICE start for very short trips) I could see even more improvement with my mix of driving. I even see the real possibility of a 100% improvement. That would be nice was it would cut my payback period in half (as if that was the reason I did it).

PICC should have a temporary push-button display system in the next few weeks with the eventual MFD integration solution of the graphical display probably about a month or so out as best I understand. That should help with the mode switching and such. There should be some other firmware tweaks available soon as well.

Andrew