Power split device innards

[roperld]

I teach a course about hybrid vehicles for the Virginia Tech YMCA.

I would like to have a set of the gears for the Power Split Device for showing in the class.

Can any one supply a set to me?

Dave Roper roperld@vt.edu

[hdrygas]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roperld @ May 11 2006, 04:48 AM) [snapback]253385[/snapback]</div>

I teach a course about hybrid vehicles for the Virginia Tech YMCA.

I would like to have a set of the gears for the Power Split Device for showing in the class.

Can any one supply a set to me?

Dave Roper roperld@vt.edu
[/b]

Look here. I don't think that IFixEm can supply you with one but we can get you more pictures than you can shake a stick at! There are models out there http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html and here http://privatenrg.com/#Nomograph. Wane was kind enough to provide me with a beta of the Prius simulator for the Alternative energy fair Go here http://priuschat.com/Live-from-Lacy-...on-t19256.html. I am sure we could get more pictures. Talk to Mike he is a great resource. PM him me and we will do what we can. Mike has plans for the pieces he has a compressed air, electric hybrid. He will do it!

[john1701a]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roperld @ May 11 2006, 06:48 AM) [snapback]253385[/snapback]</div>

I teach a course about hybrid vehicles for the Virginia Tech YMCA.
[/b]

And I created educational materials for hybrids. So I'm always in search of constructive comments/suggestions about them...

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_details.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-energy.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full_details.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-ty..._operation.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_assist.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_two-mode.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_animations.htm

...got any?

[IFixEm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roperld @ May 11 2006, 04:48 AM) [snapback]253385[/snapback]</div>

I teach a course about hybrid vehicles for the Virginia Tech YMCA.

I would like to have a set of the gears for the Power Split Device for showing in the class.

Can any one supply a set to me?

Dave Roper roperld@vt.edu
[/b]

The plaentary sets are hard to come by because of the significantly low number of failures. I would contact toyota and see if it is possible to purchase the "highlander mock-up" that we use in training. Toyota might donate one to the school. Parts and sometime whole cars get damaged in shipping. Toyota would like to recover the capitol but can not sell it so they donate for tax write-off. Shoreline CC in north seattle runs a T-ten program. In 99 we had a twin turbo supra somehow fell off the train! We donated it to the school and they just cut the squished roof off. This was a $55k car in 99. They use it to this day. Junk yard is your second option.
REgards, Mike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ May 12 2006, 06:31 AM) [snapback]254043[/snapback]</div>

And I created educational materials for hybrids. So I'm always in search of constructive comments/suggestions about them...

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_details.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-energy.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full_details.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-ty..._operation.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_assist.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_two-mode.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_animations.htm

...got any?
[/b]

I find these quite well done actually.
Regards, Mike

[hobbit]

I printed a couple of the pix from Lacey and had 'em stuck to my
car during the big auto show that TdS became part of today. It
totally rocked to be able to have that next to my "canonical cutaway"
pix and the naked inverter, even if it was crappy black-n-white
prints. Definitely caught peoples' interest.
.
_H*

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roperld @ May 11 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]253385[/snapback]</div>

Can any one supply a set to me?
[/b]

Why don't you make your own?

Ken@Japan

[DeadPhish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ May 12 2006, 09:31 AM) [snapback]254043[/snapback]</div>

And I created educational materials for hybrids. So I'm always in search of constructive comments/suggestions about them...

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_details.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-energy.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full_details.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-ty..._operation.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_assist.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_two-mode.htm

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-psd_animations.htm

...got any?
[/b]

It's a little OT but related so bear with me.

In other forums where we both participate from time tto time the discussion has arisen that the main benefit of the HSD is the Atkinson vs Otto cycle engine. Not being an auto engineer I only have a layman's undersatnding of the difference that being that at cruising speeds the Atkinson is much more efficient but sacrifices torque and performance to get this efficiency. The electric motors supply the low speed torque as well as the boost torque while driving.

The net effect of the HSD is that it is about 30% more efficient on the highway than the similar sized Otto cycle engines in the Yaris and Scions for example. My question: is this entirely due to the Atkinson vs Otto cycles while driving?

Question 2 ( related ) : In driving the Prius on the highway I feel/sense the ability to 'shutdown' the ICE by P&G and anticipation. On the consumption screen the instantaneous graph goes to '100' indicating 'shutdown' but if one watches the energy graphic screen even when the ICE seems to be shutdown there are still arrows from the ICE to the wheels and to the generator.

This brings me to the question of whether the ICE does actually shutdown while cruising ( or only when coasting ) or does it just go into a 'hyper overdrive state' where it is still delivering power but just in an ultra efficient method?

All replies are welcome.

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ May 15 2006, 01:13 PM) [snapback]255524[/snapback]</div>

The net effect of the HSD is that it is about 30% more efficient on the highway than the similar sized Otto cycle engines in the Yaris and Scions for example. My question: is this entirely due to the Atkinson vs Otto cycles while driving?[/b]

My answer is partly yes.
And, the PSD or power split device, MG1 and MG2 work together something like as an electric torque convertor.
The ICE can run at an idel speed and torque to meet the power requirement, then the torque is splitted to drive wheel directly and
to generate some electricity by MG1 and the electricity goes to MG2 to drive the wheel very efficiently.

Question 2 ( related ) : In driving the Prius on the highway I feel/sense the ability to 'shutdown' the ICE by P&G and anticipation. On the consumption screen the instantaneous graph goes to '100' indicating 'shutdown' but if one watches the energy graphic screen even when the ICE seems to be shutdown there are still arrows from the ICE to the wheels and to the generator.

This brings me to the question of whether the ICE does actually shutdown while cruising ( or only when coasting ) or does it just go into a 'hyper overdrive state' where it is still delivering power but just in an ultra efficient method?

All replies are welcome.
[/b]

Please be aware that the ICE is always spinning above 42 mph.
Also, when you see 100(99.9) MPG display, it is 41.3 km/L and it does not mean 'shutdown' mode. We, in Japan, sometimes see that Prius is running 60 km/L(141MPG) or 80 km/L(188MPG) which means Prius is consuming some fuel.

I have my own tacho-meter and fuel injector indicator on my Prius, and I see real fuel cut mode consuming no fuel indicating 99.9km/L. Please remember the ICE is still spinning at about 980rpm on such fuel cut mode above 42mph.

Ken@Japan

[DeadPhish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ May 15 2006, 02:13 AM) [snapback]255557[/snapback]</div>

My answer is partly yes.
And, the PSD or power split device, MG1 and MG2 work together something like as an electric torque convertor.
The ICE can run at an idel speed and torque to meet the power requirement, then the torque is splitted to drive wheel directly and
to generate some electricity by MG1 and the electricity goes to MG2 to drive the wheel very efficiently.

Please be aware that the ICE is always spinning above 42 mph.
Also, when you see 100(99.9) MPG display, it is 41.3 km/L and it does not mean 'shutdown' mode. We, in Japan, sometimes see that Prius is running 60 km/L(141MPG) or 80 km/L(188MPG) which means Prius is consuming some fuel.

I have my own tacho-meter and fuel injector indicator on my Prius, and I see real fuel cut mode consuming no fuel indicating 99.9km/L. Please remember the ICE is still spinning at about 980rpm on such fuel cut mode above 42mph.

Ken@Japan
[/b]

Thank you Ken,

I understand then at normal cruising speeds on the Highway when one releases the pedal ffor a moment in order to 'glide', the engine will still spin at 980 rpm.

Is fuel being spent/used in this phase ( you mention that in yours you can see 60 km/L and 80 km/L but also 99.9 km/L )? It would seem that at 60 and at 80 some, but very little, is being used but at 99.9 km/L no fuel is being spent. Would that be during a long 'glide', when the wheels drive MG2 as a generator to recapture some of the kinetic energy?

During this deceleration, say above 42 mph, I understand then that the ICE still spins but no fuel is being injected. Is that correct?

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ May 15 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]255585[/snapback]</div>

Is fuel being spent/used in this phase ( you mention that in yours you can see 60 km/L and 80 km/L but also 99.9 km/L )? It would seem that at 60 and at 80 some, but very little, is being used but at 99.9 km/L no fuel is being spent.[/b]

You're correct. We see no fuel consumed on 99.9km/L display, but we see some fuel usage on 60 or 80km/L.

Would that be during a long 'glide', when the wheels drive MG2 as a generator to recapture some of the kinetic energy?[/b]

Correct.

During this deceleration, say above 42 mph, I understand then that the ICE still spins but no fuel is being injected. Is that correct?
[/b]

Yes. However, please be aware that we need some energy to spin the ICE, which means less efficient.
Please refer to the following graph...
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=1...id=210092&st=26

Ken@Japan