Fuel Bladder Necessary for PZEV Certification? Apparently Not.

[Rokeby]

The car next to me in the parking garage today had a PZEV sticker on the
driver's side rear window, just like my Prius. I stepped 'round to the rear to
check the make, and it was a Camry.,,. A CAMRY!? (This leads to the
suspicion that other Toyota models are similarly qualified,) "Strange," thinks
I, but then my eye fell on the license plate... you guessed it, California.

[Edit] PZEV; Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle.

So far -- knock wood -- I haven't run out of gas, nor had the dreaded BURP!
when refueling. I fill up at 2 pips. Occasionally when fueling, I stop the pump
and push the nozzle in really hard, and rotate it on the theory that it will
release any built-up pressure. Hey! Don't laugh, when you don't understand
the science, ritualistic behavior is a good fall-back.

From other investigations, I know that the Ford Focus and various Subaru
models sold in CA also carry the sticker.

So, there it is, the fuel tank bladder is not necessary to meet PZEV
requirements.

Just why is it then that Prius owners are saddled with this millstone?
What is it really doing for us, and for the environment?

N.B. For new readers/owners, to get the low down on the complexity of the
bladder and associated systems go here:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/Hybrid13.pdf

For a full sense of the frustration and aggravation it can cause, use the
search function with "bladder," "guess gauge," and "ran out of gas" as the
search terms.

[thepolarcrew]

I wonder if it wasn't a trade off for safety reason and proximity to battery?

Don't feel bad about the handle thing, just tell any one you seen me do it too!

[john1701a]

Think about a future where a hybrid uses waste bio-matter ethanol as fuel. With the engine frequently off, evaporative emissions from that are even more difficult to deal with than with gas... unless it has a bladder.

.

[morpheusx]

I was thinking that in theory the bladder makes it possible to get Slightly better gas mileage since the vapors can't escape. But I don't understand the science of it either and many of our friends in Europe, Asia, and Australia who don't have it report about the same results or better in terms of consumption.

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by Rokeby

From other investigations, I know that the Ford Focus and various Subaru
models sold in CA also carry the sticker.

So, there it is, the fuel tank bladder is not necessary to meet PZEV
requirements.

Just why is it then that Prius owners are saddled with this millstone?
What is it really doing for us, and for the environment?

N.B. For new readers/owners, to get the low down on the complexity of the
bladder and associated systems go here:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/Hybrid13.pdf

For a full sense of the frustration and aggravation it can cause, use the
search function with "bladder," "guess gauge," and "ran out of gas" as the
search terms.

I think this pretty much confirms my suspicion that Toyota just plain dropped the ball when it comes to the bladder. Since the bladder isn't necessary for emissions ratings it just seems that more problems were created by the addition of the bladder such as the wildly fluctuating accuracy of the "guess gauge" and the fuel burping problem. The fuel burping alone probably cancels out or even exceeds the emissions that they hoped to save.

[ranchogirl]

I saw a Ford Focus today with a FZEV sticker on the side window. I have a lot to learn about what this means, apparently.

[thepolarcrew]

Some one had said some thing about ethanol. Haven't checked the specs of total fuel system, but is the fuel line stainless.

If yes, would be flex ready and could be sold into South America as is or a few mods.

If no could also be forward looking to that MKT as well as US. Simple change out and away you go in a time of limited oil.

My dad was a MECH, he was always PO that us car makers were going wrong direction when it came to compression. (US went to low) His threory was high comp and ethonal or methanol ect.

Where as this vehicle has 13 to 1 comp. Would burn either very good, in theory!

[JamesWyatt]

I got an 11.05 gallon fill-up the time before last which allowed 530 miles on a tank where I only got 47.5 mpg. And I had just gone down to one pip. Heck, I went 230 miles before the first pip went. I hate that I don't have a larger and more consistent gas tank. But, it's not the end of the world.

[thepolarcrew]

Have had a couple 11+ on 1 pip. I hear Ya!

[diamondlarry]

I have had 3 fill-ups of over 12 gallons. The last one was 12.4 gallons on a flashing pip that went from mile 892 to mile 1052 on the MFD at which time I chickened out and went to the station; still under engine power I might add.