E85 and the 2008

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

<snip>
It might be okay for an occasional errant fill up. It might work for a month or a year or more, but you don't really know if it will work for the life of the vehicle.

A good example of this is in the marine industry. Many power boats have been constructed with integral GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic, or fiberglass) fuel tanks. These were considered very good tanks, since they didn't rust or corrode, didn't have welds or seams to break, and were structurally part of the boat. They worked well until the fuel industry started putting ethanol into gasoline. Even at low levels, the ethanol attacks the plastic resins and starts to soften them. Over time the resin dissolves and clogs fuel filters, pumps, carborators, and injectors. What doesn't clog gets into the engine, causing catastrophic failure.

The insideous thing is that all of this took time to happen. When E10 was fisrt introduced for marine use, it seemed to work fine. A year later problems started cropping up here and there. Now it's a full scale disaster.

Tom

[David Beale]

Tom posted:

"The insideous thing is that all of this took time to happen. When E10 was fisrt introduced for marine use, it seemed to work fine. A year later problems started cropping up here and there. Now it's a full scale disaster."

Not really. After all, a boat is just a hole in the water in which you pour money. This just allows them to pour more in.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[David Beale]

Motorweek did a test last year comparing hybrids, diesels, and E85 cars to "normal" cars. The test included cost per mile, emissions, and drivability.
To have a fair and non-controversial comparison they tested vehicles available from the manufacturer in both versions.
So a Mercedes V6 gas, vs a V6 diesel.
A Honda Civic vs a Civic Hybrid.
A "Flexfuel" Yukon run on E85 vs "normal" gasoline.

Hybrids had the lowest emissions, both CO2 and other, and the lowest cost per mile by far.
The Diesels had the highest emissions, both CO2 and other.
The Yukon, run on E85, had the highest cost per mile. As I recall it was almost double the cost per mile compared to when it was run on "normal" gasoline!
I'm sure the results are posted on the PBS website, check it out if you doubt my memory.

My point is there is NO point running E85. It voids your warranty. Toyota says "Don't do it." It costs the same or more per mile to use.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by David Beale

<snip>
Not really. After all, a boat is just a hole in the water in which you pour money. This just allows them to pour more in.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

We use a slight modification of that old saying: our boat is a "wood-lined hole in the water that we fill with money."

Nothing like building your boat from a material that burns, rots, and is eaten by marine organisms. You have to love wood. I should have added expensive to the list of attributes.

Tom

[halpos4]

So is ethanol an additive in gas in all States and at what levels? I take it the Motor Industry must have been consulted/made aware prior to it's introduction in order for them to voice their concerns in relation to the possible effects it might have even at low levels over the lifetime of vehicles or where they just told it's happening!

[Kcissem]

Originally Posted by halpos4

So is ethanol an additive in gas in all States and at what levels?

Most states have now passed laws requiring all gas to have upto but no more than 10% ethanol in the gas, Where i live in Washington D.C metro area these laws were passed for both virginia and maryland in 2006, Although i do fill up at a shell station that supposedly does not have any ethanol in it, or atleast does not advertise so.

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by halpos4

So is ethanol an additive in gas in all States and at what levels? I take it the Motor Industry must have been consulted/made aware prior to it's introduction in order for them to voice their concerns in relation to the possible effects it might have even at low levels over the lifetime of vehicles or where they just told it's happening!

MTBE is used as an oxygenate for gasoline, but is soluble in water and has been found to be a common contaminate in ground water. Due to environmental concerns, some (most?) gasoline in the U.S. now uses ethanol for the same purpose.

In some locations, such as Michigan, gasohol was introduced many years ago as a way to subsidize grain farmers. These early adopters of gasohol caused the auto industry to take a careful look at the effects of ethanol in fuel.

Tom

[richard schumacher]

So, yes: car makers for several years now have made their products ethanol-proof, at least up to 10% ethanol (E10). E10 is commonly used to improve combustion and reduce polluting emissions, so in that respect at least it's a good thing.

[statultra]

isnt E85 like 110 octane rating?

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by statultra

isnt E85 like 110 octane rating?

And your point is?

Tom