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'06 Oil / Motor noise question

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by VESPAGUY, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    here's an odd story (for me at least)...

    Our '06 has enjoyed a comfy garage, frequent cleanings, new tires when needed and very specific oil/lube jobs on schedule...every time by our original purchasing dealer (Hendrick Toyota in Merriam Kansas)

    My ODO is at approx 147K

    Two weeks ago a day after retrieving my car from the dealer after an oil change driving down the highway we hear a loud rattle/clunk (as if something had hit or fallen off the car underneath). Prius continued to run fine and we proceeded for approx 1 mile to our destination.

    After approx. 15 minute stop we powered-up and proceeded to our next stop. Not even 1/2 mile back on the highway pulling into our lane the Red triangle exclamation mark dummy light comes on. Prius drives normally but after approx a mile on the road at 60mph we exit to our destination and Prius appears to not be happy and the petrol motor appears to be shutting down. We safely shoulder the car and are able to proceed in EV for about 3/4 mile. When regen is needed, the petrol motor will not start and we make a general assumption the Prius is in some sort of safety mode.

    We get a tow from a kind fellow to the parking lot of our destination. Baffled by what may have caused this I inspected all corners of Prius without obvious conclusions, until... I checked the dipstick. Dry as a... a dipstick in an oil pan without oil!! The Tech did not get the oil pan plug secured well and we lost the plug and the entire quantity of fresh motor oil. I called the dealer (it was a Sunday) their sales personnel answered and was able to take my information and they promptly got back to me on Monday.

    Hendrick Toyota called me promptly on Monday after Prius was towed to their shop. The service manager was informative and responsive to my needs (rather, Prius' needs). They gladly addressed the oil situation and ran multiple tests to reset the computer and verify all systems were running normal. Prius was delivered to my driveway the next day after receiving these various tests, full detailing and a full tank of fuel.

    My question for you all is; Prius' petrol motor sounds 'rougher' now when it activates. Granted, it was noisy before, but more typical to a little Toyota motor revving, now it's a bit more of a gnarly sound.

    Should I be concerned with the fact that I think my petrol motor may have been damaged with this oil deprivation issue? Or is this all totally psychological?

    Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

    re-posting to the right Gen thread;

    here's an odd story (for me at least)...

    Our '06 has enjoyed a comfy garage, frequent cleanings, new tires when needed and very specific oil/lube jobs on schedule...every time by our original purchasing dealer (Hendrick Toyota in Merriam Kansas)

    My ODO is at approx 147K

    Two weeks ago a day after retrieving my car from the dealer after an oil change driving down the highway we hear a loud rattle/clunk (as if something had hit or fallen off the car underneath). Prius continued to run fine and we proceeded for approx 1 mile to our destination.

    After approx. 15 minute stop we powered-up and proceeded to our next stop. Not even 1/2 mile back on the highway pulling into our lane the Red triangle exclamation mark dummy light comes on. Prius drives normally but after approx a mile on the road at 60mph we exit to our destination and Prius appears to not be happy and the petrol motor appears to be shutting down. We safely shoulder the car and are able to proceed in EV for about 3/4 mile. When regen is needed, the petrol motor will not start and we make a general assumption the Prius is in some sort of safety mode.

    We get a tow from a kind fellow to the parking lot of our destination. Baffled by what may have caused this I inspected all corners of Prius without obvious conclusions, until... I checked the dipstick. Dry as a... a dipstick in an oil pan without oil!! The Tech did not get the oil pan plug secured well and we lost the plug and the entire quantity of fresh motor oil. I called the dealer (it was a Sunday) their sales personnel answered and was able to take my information and they promptly got back to me on Monday.

    Hendrick Toyota called me promptly on Monday after Prius was towed to their shop. The service manager was informative and responsive to my needs (rather, Prius' needs). They gladly addressed the oil situation and ran multiple tests to reset the computer and verify all systems were running normal. Prius was delivered to my driveway the next day after receiving these various tests, full detailing and a full tank of fuel.

    My question for you all is; Prius' petrol motor sounds 'rougher' now when it activates. Granted, it was noisy before, but more typical to a little Toyota motor revving, now it's a bit more of a gnarly sound.

    Should I be concerned with the fact that I think my petrol motor may have been damaged with this oil deprivation issue? Or is this all totally psychological?

    Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?
     
    #1 VESPAGUY, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2014
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry to tell you this, but they killed your motor. i've seen it many times at the jiffy lube. you're going to need a new one, i just hope you won't need an attorney to get it. all the best!(y)

    sorry to tell you this, but you're going to need a new motor. this is kind of weird, but someone else had almost the same exact issue today.
     
    #2 bisco, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2014
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...the good news, if needed, the engines are reportedly fairly cheap on EBay but you need someone to install of course. Scary to lose the oil plug...I always do my own oil refills and I don't tighten too much so I can get it off next time. But it works. To fall off sounds like it was just barely on there.
     
  4. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    ...Agree with the 'Barely on there'

    Thanks WJ
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    My guess would be the mechanic put the bolt on a turn or two, just to avoid getting dripped on while replacing the oil filter. Then forgot about it. Too bad, maybe the dealership will take some responsibility?
     
  6. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    So far Hendrick Toyota has been a good player. I am taking it back to them Friday for assessment.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no question your going to do damage running without oil.
     
  8. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I am afraid "bisco" summed the situation up your engine is well and truly damaged. Only a replacement "best option" or a complete rebuild would be acceptable. Damage to the crankshaft bearings, cam shafts, pistons rings and bores is inevitable. Even if the engine runs reasonably now but with more noise it will not last.

    John (Britprius)
     
  9. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    Thanks all... In addition to Crankshaft Bearings, Cam shaft, Piston Rings and Bore damage... what else should I list when communicating with this dealership?

    Also, are there any postings out there for the email addresses of the regional Toyota Reps?
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The items mentioned are the main components subject to damage with no oil. Possibly the most damage would be at the big end bearings and the main bearings being run at high rpm (4000 +) on the freeway for a mile or so with no lubrication. This is almost certainly where the gnarly sound is coming from "good description". Ware in the bearings causes a drop in oil pressure and a distinct knocking rattle at cold start,"think machine gun".
    This is not to say the bore/piston damage is not severe. This will cause heavy oil usage and loss of compression.
    The camshafts run directly in bores in the aluminium cylinder head. Any wear hear will cause excessive valve clearance and noise along with a further drop in oil pressure.
    I am not trying to over state the problems. It is bad just starting and stopping an engine with no oil, but running on a freeway at speed under load "not your fault" is a disaster for the engine. I am amazed it did not throw a rod and possibly for you it would have been better if it had.

    John (Britprius)
     
    #10 Britprius, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  11. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    I've been able to contact my regional Toyota Rep, Kyle Keckeisen, who has indicated he'll help escalate this with the Dealership.

    More next week...


     
  12. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Thanks for the update. I hope all goes well for you, and your Prius is returned back to a condition perhaps better than it was before this fiasco began.
    Please do keep us informed of developments.

    John (Britprius)
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  14. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    Listen closely to the Video capture my wife recorded this morning. Petrol motor is well warm at this test, BTW. (Apologies the video is rotated...)

     
  15. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    That's big end knock it can be plainly heard just as the revs are rising. This is caused by white metal being removed from the bearing surface increasing clearance in the bearing. The Knocking will get worse as the car is driven eventually throwing a rod through the side of the block.

    John (Britprius)
     
    #15 Britprius, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
    VESPAGUY likes this.
  16. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Just edited my post to add a line.

    John (Britprius)
     
  17. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Changing the engine oil to something like 20w50 would help reduce the noise, but this is only a short term fix not a recommendation. My advice would be not to drive at speed to keep engine revs down if you have to use the car at all.
    If a rod does burst out of the engine it could take the AC compressor with it along with the condenser and coolant rads.
    Again not trying to paint a black picture, but this can and does happen.
    Wishing a good and speedy resolution to all this for you.

    John (Britprius)
     
  18. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    John, Thanks again.

    I knew that day when my unbeatable Prius came to a shuddering stop that a dark ominous cloud overcame me. I'll post again on Monday with what I glean from my visit to the Dealer tomorrow. It should be interesting!

    Cheers!





     
  19. VESPAGUY

    VESPAGUY Junior Member

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    ... 2 more Videos recorded by my Wife again, clearly identifying the petrol motor sound. The sound is drastically different than our motor sounded prior to the negligence of the dealership.

    (She assured me she was focused on the road whilst recording!)
     
    #19 VESPAGUY, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  20. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The more I hear your engine the more certain I become of my diagnosis, and the inevitable outcome.
    I would be in touch with the dealer to confirm they will pay for any further damage and tow charges if the engine bursts. It was they that caused the problem, and they filled the car with oil and sent you on your way.
    At the very leased they should supply you with a loan car until the problem is resolved. Freeways are not safe places to be in the event of a breakdown and the noise the engine is making suggests this could be at any time.
    I am truly not trying to worry you as most of my posts paint a black picture on this event, but this is the truth of the matter.

    John (Britprius)