2012 Prius Plug-In Product Info (pdf)

Perhaps I missed it. What was the indication that Toyota didn't learn those few things?

Supposed top EV speed of 62MPH, 15 miles of EV range in a 4.4KW pack, where the third party PICC gets 6-8KW of lithium in the same space with 25-30 EV miles, and 70MPH in all electric

Just a few things the third party conversion company is doing better than the OEM

^^ A bigger pack is not better or worse, it is a trade-off. Pick your poison.

As for the 70 mpg 'EV' mode, Dennis has already pointed out to you that the ICE spins above 45 mph in the converted Prius. You are not comparing the same 'EV' mode. When Toyota says 62 mph (or at least 53 mph ?) in the plug-in, ICE spin is zero.

and here i thought 2.5k-3k extra Americans have to pay (with tax deduction) is quite affordable.

i mean if that does not make sense, then certainly Prius a whole doesnt either.
ie if 29.5k is too much to pay for Prius with 15 mile EV range, then paying 27k for one with similar features but no EV range is certainly the same, right?

Sure, you can put a bigger heavier battery pack and deplete it deeper. What about battery warranty, acceleration, cost and cordless MPG?

you're absolutely correct sp. but with the cordless, you get to pick the level you want. although i, and many others, would prefer a base plus pick your own options, this would be less profitable for toyota. while a base plug in would be a great option, it would proly be close to the $32,000 price for toyota to make the same profit and we would be whining about that as well.

Why would wrranty be any different for a bigger battery ? Afterall from power perspective, it helps.

To get the acceleration they can use more power - which would now be available with a bigger battery.

Cost is taken care of by larger tax credit.

"cordless mpg" - there you go again with your fraudulant use

I think what USB is trying to say is that the PiP has a 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty whereas 3rd party solutions likely don't. I know nothing about PICC, but for all we know, the company might not even last the warranty length.

Deeper depletion would also likely make it difficult for the battery provider to give such a long warranty (and still make a profit/stay in business).

EVNow,

Bigger Battery -> Higher Cost -> More Weight -> Slower Acceleration
Deeper Battery Depletion -> More EV Miles -> Lower Life

Traction motor (MG2) is the power bottleneck, not the battery so making the PHV battery bigger than necessary won't get you any more propulsion power.

You think a plugin hybrid that uses maximum battery size that tax credit allows is the best idea. I don't think so. You need to consider the weight, cargo and interior volume, hybrid mode MPG and other trade-offs.

I have said it before and I would say it again. I think PICC is the best plugin conversion out there. However, the warranty is 3 years and they have not gone through federal crash test or rollover test. They don't need to get the EPA fuel economy label, emission grade or publish acceleration number.

Toyota's plugin has to have 10 years / 150k miles and SULEV emission to qualify for E-ATPZEV. We also found out recently about it's estimated 87 MPGe overall and 49 MPG in hybrid mode.

Source?

The media handout for the Frankfurt 2011 auto show lists the production Prius Plugin-in maximum battery power output as 27 kW which is less than half of the 60 kW rating of MG2.

See page 50 of the following document for the Prius Plugin-in battery output specification.

http://media.toyota.eu/Lists/EMS Documents/Frankfurt Motor Show/Frankfurt 2011/Frankfurt_2011_EN.pdf

Interesting prelim spec. I wonder if it is a typo. My source is my personal experience in the PHV prototype. It has much stronger and longer EV acceleration.

I had an opportunity to see the unofficial sales staff manual of the production PiP.
It says...

regular Prius EV switch mode power threshold = 21kW
Plug-in Prius EV mode power threshold = 38kW

Ken@Japan

I'm not sure this has been discussed, but a bad news is production PiP does not have a heat pump heater.

The EV mode of production PiP will be canceled when we turn on the heater.

Ken@Japan

Thanks, that's almost twice the battery power to drive without blending gas.

Yes, we knew about the heat pump AC. It was dropped due to the weight and minimal benefit over the conventional.

That will kind be a let down only getting 100 MPG on the drive to work.

Realistically, it will likely have a threshold just like the regular model does. For the 2010, that's a coolant temperature of 114°F when in ECO mode. So for me, that means automatically cycling between HV and EV on cold winter commutes.
.

I found this interesting graph in a SAE paper with real-world city driving data, probably collected from the prototypes.

100 km/h = 62 mph

38 kW (51 hp) is plenty enough for city driving.

The graph is certaintly interesting. Who knows what the weakest link is in the drivetrain though. Maybe Toyota just figured people did not need more power based on actual usage. I like the way the Volt is where the only reason I have to worry about the engine coming on is when temps are 14 or less, and when I run out of battery charge... The PiP looks like it will be similar to the regular Prius in that we will need to be mindful of accelerator application, heat usage, and such to get the most out of the car. That is one of the thing that bothers me with the regular Prius. Although I figured out 2 days ago if I hit the EV button right after the start button I can avoid the motor coming on till I get out the parking lot. Can't wait for people to start taking delivery of the production cars so we can get some real world data going on this other than the prototypes.