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Are plug-ins viable or simply a matter of prestige?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ystasino, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    Facts:

    1) Toyota has sold 3 million hybrids most of them GenII Prius or later.
    2) The Leaf and the Volt sales show none of the enthusiasm generated by the 2001 Prius which sold ~40k units worldwide, let alone the 2004 Prius which sold 130,000 units and has been growing at a steady rate since.
    3) A 75 mpg plug-in hybrid will save just $282/year over a 50 mpg Prius for every 12,000 miles with gas at $3.52/gallon. Even with gas at $7/gallon these savings will never provide a strong enough financial incentive.
    4) Toyota's hybrid competitors don't have the capacity to compete.
    5) The infrastructure required for electrics will take decades and it is not clear that it is even economically viable.

    Technology-driven/badge-driven owners aside, my guess is that plug-ins need 20 years, or a massive oil crisis, to become as mainstream as the Prius became within a few years of its launch.
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Remember how years ago analysts used $1.50/gallon for the same type of reasoning?
    .
     
  3. ZitterZap

    ZitterZap Member

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    It is disappointing that the Volt doesn't perform as well as the Prius with its battery depleted and is still pretty expensive after the tax rebate compared to a Prius with similar features. Also I have heard that the interior quality isn't great either.
    If a Plug-in is done right it will become viable until then its a matter of prestige.
     
  4. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Right now plug ins appear to be suitable for niche markets. Their ability to move out from there depends mostly on battery technology.
     
  5. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    Sure, but '04 Prius sold 50x more vehicles than the plug-ins with Japan sales excluded. And it had nothing to do with gas prices in 2004-2007.

    It had to do with the perfect combination of targeting the low $20-$25k market segment and being willing to accept initial losses on each sold vehicle.

    It seems unlikely that any other mainstream manufacture can accomplish this now: The low-cost hybrid market is occupied and no longer naive, and none of the other car manufacturers are viable enough to take such losses to lead. Certainly not GM... Further, that technology is simply too expensive and the infrastructure too absent for plug-ins.

    If one assumes that the Volt @ $33k runs at an optimistic 65 mpg vs an $22k Prius at a realistic 50 mpg, one will need 8 years of $25/ga to even out for 12,000 miles/year.

    The pure electric as a second car makes some more sense in terms of size, emissions and costs, but the infrastructure for such a vehicle is sorely lacking.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think the plug in prius will be very popular with people who drive 10-20 miles most days, like me!
     
  7. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Exactly. For many people, it will be more like 750 mpg if they work it right. The Prius Plug-In will be setup for EV driving, unlike the current Prius. Even in the Hymotion Prius, I have gotten 150 mpg without any further modifications such as The Force has done to achieve his remarkable milage, I think as high as 300 mpg.