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    hb06 Member

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    Let's hope Vermont wins......A swarm of attorneys has descended on Burlington.

    "The Vermont case (Auto Industry vs Vermont) is a warmup for the main event, an identical suit against the California law that isn't scheduled to be heard until this summer."

    "California is the only state that can devise emissions rules that differ from federal standards. Other states can then choose between the California and federal regulations."

    "So although a decision in the Vermont case would apply only there, the ruling in the California case, if it goes to trial, would affect every state. A win by the automakers in California would overturn the state's ability to regulate greenhouse gas tailpipe emissions."

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-verm...dlines-business
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    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    So how does the recent EPA ruling by the Supremes affect this decision? Or does it have any bearing?
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    hb06 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 2 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]416701[/snapback]</div>
    This Supreme Court ruling vindicated the authority of this particular "Federal Agency" on Environmental Protection (EPA) to regulate Vehicle Emissions as it relates to air quality and human health--A Major point of contention in itself. However, the court stopped short of saying that the EPA "had" to limit vehicle emissions.

    As this dispute raged on, California adopted its own stricter "State" vehicle emissions standards in 2002. Other states could choose between the California and existing federal regulations, and 10 other states followed California emissions standards.

    "None of those [State] emissions standards are in effect yet, but a federal lawsuit by automakers against the Vermont law is being closely watched as a test of states' power to regulate carbon emissions."

    In theory, a win by the auto industry in Vermont could set a precedent for the upcoming suit against California, which if they succeeded, could overturn these stricter "State" vehicle emissions standards for those who followed California.
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    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    People have waited and waited for the Federal Government to do something and they've done nothing. The Oil/Auto lobby is all centered in D.C. So the fight was taken to the state level with the theory that if enough states got together to agree on a higher standard, it would eventually have a domino effect and hit the Federal level.

    Now the question is...can states surpass the minimum EPA requirements.

    A State cannot negate it. A State can't undermine the EPA by allowing more pollutants.

    So the question is...can the states implement requirements that not only meet EPA but exceed them?

    This will be very interesting. The Republicans are all of small government and allowing states to make as many of their own decisions....in theory. In pracitice however....they're already intruding into public education.

    Once this gets to the Supreme Court it will be interesting to see how it goes.

    To me, it's like the minimum wage. You can't pay anyone any lower than the government says. But you can pay them more. So let the states legislate tighter restrictions. The Automakers already deal with the Federal standards and California standards. Plenty of states have jumped on the California bandwagon. They want to throw them off and destroy the wagon.

    We'll see if the wishes of the people triumph over the demands of the D.C. political lobby.

    If Toyota were smart, they'd abandon the rest of the Automakers and jump to the other side. They are far and away in advance of the rest and could stand to profit from the tighter standards.
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    fshagan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 2 2007, 05:00 PM) [snapback]416741[/snapback]</div>
    California has had stricter air pollution laws, leading to the "California model" cars even before the Feds had the Clean Air Act laws ... way back in 1961, our legislature passed a law requiring PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valves in cars. Those of you in the other 49 dirty slacker states can check out http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/brochure/history.htm, while Godiva and I will bask in our California Righteous Attitude ™.

    Since California's efforts predate the Feds, I think it will be hard for the Feds to make the argument that they take precedence. They are still trying to catch up to us.
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    hb06 Member

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    Now that it has been officially declared that the EPA has the authority to regulate vehicle emissions, it would be interesting if the EPA itself now adopted California emissions standards.
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    fshagan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HBO6 @ Apr 3 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]417063[/snapback]</div>
    Well, the EPA is part of the Executive branch with a cabinet member running it, so with this Republican President in office, I doubt you'll see any aggressive activity. His father would probably direct the agency to do more, as would some of the prior Republicans (like Nixon, who created the EPA, IIRC). Of the Republicans running for office, McCain and Giulliani are both semi-green, so they would have a more active EPA.
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    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    I agree that Bush Sr would have done more. Reagan on the other hand... Yes, Nixon gets credit for the EPA. We just have to put our heads down and wait out the rest of the term. After that I think that we'll see some progress at the Federal level. In the mean time it's up to the states and municipalities.
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    fshagan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 3 2007, 10:48 PM) [snapback]417490[/snapback]</div>
    The one thing I think the states might be prohibited from doing is setting an MPG "fleet" standard; the current one, with the exclusions for SUVs and trucks, is a joke. A good first step would be to require all automakers, including imports, to meet a standard that includes all vehicles sold.
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    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    yeah, I agree. Hence the importance of the feds getting off their hands and doing something. Unless all states adopted the exact same standards it would be a nightmare for manufactures who sell in multiple states.
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    fshagan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 4 2007, 09:15 AM) [snapback]417678[/snapback]</div>
    Yep, the plumbing industry actually liked the water conservation laws being nationalized, as they had different toilet models for different areas.

    Big states can specify what they want, so California gets away with it. For a state like Vermont, I could see GM saying it just won't sell cars there.
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    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Well, since so many states are adopting the California restrictions, they can simply make all of their cars comply with California and then, whether a state has different specs or not, they still get a California compliant car.

    Simple.

    And cheaper than making multiple versions. And the consumer doens't have to worry about if he moves to a state with higher restrictions and has to pay money to modify his car to comply.

    Now we'll see what kind of clout Arnold has....if he can get the EPA to adopt California standards across the nation.
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    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 4 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]417678[/snapback]</div>
    not really they just have to have sell California certified vehicles and that will superceed the lower standard. So in reality everyone benifits from lower levels of tailpipe emissions.

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