Boeing 747-8F Lands at Paris after First-Ever Transatlantic Biofuel Flight

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Rybold, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Boeing 747-8F Lands at Paris after First-Ever Transatlantic Biofuel Flight


    Sure, biofuel was only 15% of the fuel mixture, and biofuel also takes a lot of energy to produce, BUT this test is a good start and proves that this method is viable.

    My questions:
    Is this 15% biofuel mixture better than 100% fossil fuels? If so, how much better?

    Why "15%" ? Is that the maximum fuel blend of biofuel that will still allow the engines to run, based on experimentation, or is that an arbitrary/economic number?
     
  2. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Airbus and Europe map jet biofuel goal | SmartPlanet

    (same source as link above)
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    9,960
    1,863
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    15% is a political not an engineering number. Given that refineries can crack hydrocarbons, if need be we can take wind and sugar and make jet A. Europeans have pegged a certain amount of "renewable" use.

    Gulfstream G450 First Aircraft to Cross Atlantic Using Biofuels @ AMTOnline.com Top News
    http://www.uop.com/honeywell-green-jet-fuel-powers-air-force-thunderbirds-demonstration/
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,357
    1,809
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    5,211
    855
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Partial answers-
    Why 15-50%? Fly by your fridge a look at nearest hydrogenated vegetable oil
    Why better than 100% FF? Gov't mandates and subsidies

    OK, its funner than ethanol, but earlier post I was suggesting if we really need alternate jet fuel source for national security, first of all that's a nutty premise since we have more refineries than anyone else, but assuming I agreed with the premise, I'd do some coal liquifaction or Fischer Tropse, but I can never spell that option.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    9,960
    1,863
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    This flight actually used camelina based bio-fuel. I leave it up to others on how environmental it is, but the oil is refined into the jet fuel and the protein is used for animal feed. GC, french fry grease can also be used but this is a much more limited resource. Locally used cooking oils and fats are converted to biodiesel that is used in cars and trucks. We should be recycling all this grease, fat, and oil.

    50% is a technical requirement. It would require jet modification or a much more energy consuming process to create a fuel that does not need to be mixed with 50% jet A. I will not coment on the European mandates, but the DARPA funds to develop alternatives for jet fuel in the case that OPEC does another oil embargo seems like some of the better used defense funds.

    There is a much more wasteful government program to convert coal to gasoline in the united states. so its not like politicians are not funding that option They are throwing a lot more money at it, and getting worse results.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. dustoff003

    dustoff003 Blizzard Brigade #003

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    1,351
    327
    Waianae, HI (Oahu)
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Five
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    5,211
    855
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good. I am all for equal opportunity as far as throwing money away. You know, on coal I am assuming we minimize future use of 30% efficiency conventional coal fired plants. So I am looking for cleaner ways to use that resource. Re: bio-diesel you are correct I was alluding to EU mandates and credits, but also the military here as per the prior post.
     
  9. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    2,074
    274
    2014 Prius C
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    pick me pick me I know this one!

    15% is legislated/required biodiesel content in diesel, not sure for EU or for France only.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    5,211
    855
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good one, Cyclo!