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Eminent Domain

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by hycamguy07, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    Eminent Domain, can affect all of us that own property.

    I found this story from :
    (CBS) Just about everyone knows that under a process called eminent domain, the government can (and does) seize private property for public use - to build a road, a school or a courthouse.

    But did you know the government can also seize your land for private use if they can prove that doing it will serve what's called "the public good"?

    Cities across the country have been using eminent domain to force people off their land, so private developers can build more expensive homes and offices that will pay more in property taxes than the buildings they're replacing.

    Under eminent domain, the government buys your property, paying you what's determined to be fair market value.

    But now, people who don't want to sell their homes at any price - just to see their land go to another private owner - are fighting back. Correspondent Mike Wallace reports on this story, which first aired last fall.
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    Jim Saleet worked in the pharmaceutical industry, paid off his house and then retired. Now, he and his wife plan to spend the rest of their days there, and pass their house on to their children.

    But Lakewood's mayor, Madeleine Cain, has other plans. She wants to tear down the Saleets' home, plus 55 homes around it, along with four apartment buildings and more than a dozen businesses.

    Why? So that private developers can build high-priced condos, and a high-end shopping mall, and thus raise Lakewood's property tax base.

    The mayor told 60 Minutes that she sought out a developer for the project because Lakewood's aging tax base has been shrinking and the city simply needs more money.

    “This is about Lakewood's future. Lakewood cannot survive without a strengthened tax base. Is it right to consider this a public good? Absolutely,†says the mayor, who admits that it's difficult and unfortunate that the Saleets are being asked to give up their home.

    The Saleets live in an area called Scenic Park, and because it is so scenic, it's a prime place to build upscale condominiums. With great views, over the Rocky River, those condos will be a cinch to sell.
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    But the condos can't go up unless the city can remove the Saleets and their neighbors through eminent domain. And to legally invoke eminent domain, the city had to certify that this scenic park area is, really, "blighted."

    “We're not blighted. This is an area that we absolutely love. This is a close-knit, beautiful neighborhood. It's what America's all about,†says Jim Saleet. “And, Mike, you don't know how humiliating this is to have people tell you, 'You live in a blighted area,' and how degrading this is.â€

    "The term 'blighted' is a statutory word," says Mayor Cain. “It is, it really doesn't have a lot to do with whether or not your home is painted. ...A statutory term is used to describe an area. The question is whether or not that area can be used for a higher and better use.â€

    But what’s higher and better than a home? “The term 'blight' is used to describe whether or not the structures generally in an area meet today's standards,†says Cain.

    And it's the city that sets those standards, so Lakewood set a standard for blight that would include most of the homes in the neighborhood. A home could be considered blighted, says Jim Saleet, if it doesn't have the following: three bedrooms, two baths, an attached two-car garage and central air.

    “This community's over 100 years old. Who has all those things? That's the criteria. And it's ridiculous,†says Jim Saleet. “And, by the way, we got up at a meeting and told the mayor and all seven council members, their houses are blighted, according to this criteria.â€

    Cain admits that her house doesn’t have two bathrooms, a two-car garage and the lot size is less than 5,000 square feet.

    The Saleets may live in a cute little neighborhood, but without those new condos, the area won’t produce enough property taxes to satisfy the mayor and city council.

    “That's no excuse for taking my home. My home is not for sale. And if my home isn't safe, nobody's home is safe, in the whole country,†says Jim Saleet. “Not only Ohio. But this is rampant all over the country. It's like a plague.â€
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    Dana Berliner and Scott Bullock are attorneys at a libertarian non-profit group called The Institute for Justice, which has filed suit on behalf of the Saleets against the City of Lakewood. They claim that taking private property this way is unconstitutional.

    “This is a nationwide epidemic,†says Berliner. “We have documented more than 10,000 instances of government taking property from one person to give it to another in just the last five years.â€

    “It is fundamentally wrong, and contrary to the Constitution for the government to take property from one private owner, and hand it over to another private owner, just because the government thinks that person is going to make more productive use of the land,†says Bullock.

    “Everyone knows that property can be taken for a road. But nobody thinks that property can be taken to give it to their neighbor or the large business down the street for their economic benefit,†adds Berliner. “People are shocked when they hear that this is going on around the country.â€
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    And it's not just people's homes that are the targets in these eminent domain cases. The Institute for Justice has also filed suit against the City of Mesa, Ariz., to save Randy Bailey's Brake Repair Shop - the shop he got from his father and hopes to someday pass on to his son.

    The City of Mesa, citing the need for "redevelopment," is trying to force Bailey to relocate to make way for an Ace Hardware Store that would look better and pay more taxes.

    "Redevelopment to me means work with existing people who are there and redevelop. Not, 'You get out! We're bringing this guy in,'" says Bailey, whose business has been on the same corner for more than 30 years.

    Business has been awesome, Bailey says. But now, he says they’re going to turn his business into dirt. In fact, the city has “made dirt†out of three restaurants and four businesses that once stood on a five-acre lot.

    “And it's not just business properties that they're going this on. You know, they wiped out eight people's homes over here. Your home ain't even safe,†says Bailey, who told 60 Minutes that his neighbors let the city buy them out.
    But he’s refusing to sell: “I’m standing in their way. I’m their thorn in their side.â€

    And he’s a thorn in the side of Ken Lenhart, who owns the Ace Hardware Store a few blocks away. Lenhart wants a much bigger store. He could have negotiated with Bailey, but instead, he convinced the City of Mesa to try to buy Bailey's land through eminent domain and then sell it to him.

    “The City of Mesa wants to move Mr. Bailey about a block away, and from what I understand it's gonna be a new building, new equipment, moving expenses and everything set up for him,†says Lenhart. “I don't see how Mr. Bailey is gonna get hurt.â€

    “You can't replace a business being in the same location. This place was built in 1952 as a brake and front-end shop,†says Bailey. “I don't care where you move it in the City of Mesa, it would never be the same.â€

    So Bailey went to Lenhart looking for a way to stay on his corner.

    “I tried to go to him and see if we couldn't work something out on this. And he told me, 'No, there ain't room for you there. We're gonna let the city just take care of you,'" says Bailey.

    Lenhart admits that he never tried to negotiate with Bailey: "It happens all over the country. In practically any town you want to go to, they're redeveloping their town centers. Now, we are going to sit in Mesa, Arizona and have our town center decay? As a citizen of Mesa, I don't want that to happen."

    But Bailey says his business was on private property, and not for sale: “If I'd had a 'For Sale' sign out there, it would have been a whole different deal. And for them to come in and tell me how much my property's worth and for me to get out because they're bringing in somebody else when I own the land is unfounded to me. It doesn't even sound like the United States.â€
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    And this isn't happening just in small towns. In New York City, just a few blocks from Times Square, New York State has forced a man to sell a corner that his family owned for more than 100 years. And what's going up instead? A courthouse? A school? Nope. The new headquarters of The New York Times.

    The world's most prestigious newspaper wants to build a new home on that block, but Stratford Wallace and the block's other property owners didn't want to sell. Wallace told 60 Minutes that the newspaper never tried to negotiate with him. Instead, The Times teamed up with a major real estate developer, and together they convinced New York State to use eminent domain to force Wallace out. How? By declaring the block blighted.

    “I challenge them,†says Wallace. “This is not blighted property.â€

    But New York State's Supreme Court disagreed and ruled that the newspaper's new headquarters would eliminate blight - and that even though a private entity (The New York Times) is the main beneficiary, improving the block would benefit the public.


    In Mesa, Ariz., Randy Bailey can keep his brake shop right where it is. The week after this report aired, Arizona's Court of Appeals ruled that turning his land over to a hardware store would not be a proper use of eminent domain.
    But in New York City, tenants and owners have been forced off their land so The New York Times can begin building its new headquarters.

    Its really sickening to see that this can really happen, What do you think [you] ?
     
  2. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Yes.

    This issue came up when a very bad Connecticut law allowed for the seizure of homes under eminent domain so a private developer could do exactly the same thing. (In my neighborhood, they put up a tree and a patch of grass and call it a "public park", then build shops and condos benefiting private developers.)

    It went to the supreme court.

    The homeowners lost.

    All of the states then scrambled to enact laws and lawmakers swore it wouldn't happen in their state/city/district.

    Yadda yadda.

    It happens all of the time.

    Witness the article you cited.

    BTW the reason cited by the Mayor is a result of what in California we call Prop 13. It basically froze property taxes. If you don't sell your home, your property taxes don't go up. So for stable neighborhods like those in the article...the taxes they generate don't come close to paying for the services they use. By taking their property and developing it as the Mayor has described...the property taxes instantly go up and the city rakes in the money.

    You don't own anything. You rent it. And the government can take it away from you any time it wants. And market value is what they say it is.

    If my home were taken tomorrow and I was paid *real* market value (as oppposed to the market value the state would devalue it to) I would never own a home again in my life. Because even though my home is worth $465,000, the average home is San Diego sells for $750,000. And at $70,000 a year I couldn't qualify for a loan that would allow me to buy my own home, let alone an 'average' home.

    I suppose I could move back in with my parents. I'm only 51. How long would they give me for murdering two 76 year olds? I would plead insanity of course. They will have driven me nuts within a week.

    Of course....I'd have to sell their home to pay the lawyer's fees.

    So I'd still be homeless.
     
  3. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 11 2006, 10:37 PM) [snapback]238363[/snapback]</div>
    Yup. Refuse to pay property taxes and see what happens...
     
  4. imntacrook

    imntacrook New Member

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    Enuf is enuf!! If this town decided to take my domicile and build a resort, I would stock up on water, food and ammo (I don't own a gun and personally don't like them) and make Waco look like a birthday party.
     
  5. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 12 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]238495[/snapback]</div>
    YES!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    We are a gov't OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people. Our gov't can only do what the citizenry allow.

    Yes, yes, they can do what ever they want, they have the power (witness MY job) However, the people have the power to UNDO any of it (short of killing someone).

    Soooooo, where are the organized protest to recall the politicians who vote for this. The most persoanlly destructive politics is local, yet most people are more interested in the international stuff... Why is that????

    Ohio lawmakers are trying to pass a law to FORBID taking of property to give to private interest therefore preserving what they think is the original intent of eminent domain.
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 12 2006, 08:17 AM) [snapback]238495[/snapback]</div>
    Well, that will save a long court battle. They'll just pay off your estate.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Apr 12 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]238553[/snapback]</div>
    I did this. I read through the Redevelopment documents and anything in the "commercial zone" was automatically eminent domain if there was a proposed project. They stretched eminent domain half way up the block along the main road. The line ended with my house just inside.

    So I walked the entire neighborhood and took pictures and charted each house this would take. Then I went to the City council and made a presentation on how many single family homes would be taken (and how many Apartment buildings left behind) by this line. I then convinced them to move the line 100 ft to the south, showing them how many single family homes would be saved (thus keeping stability in the neighborhood) while having no impact on the redevelopment plans in place.

    They bought it.

    The "line" is named after me. And it is referred to by my name in all subsequent documents. It comes up in council every once in a while.

    Now my presentation probably wouldn't have had the impact it had if it had not been for the fact that this wasn't my first time in front of the city council. I've testified repeatedly on street light and *I* got mid block street lights down my block, had the wooden "alley" pole across the street from me replaced with a concrete "neighborhood" pole and got the low sodium bug lights replaced with high sodium white lights. My face was quite familiar.

    And I won't say that my secret organization "The Dead Chihuahuas" was instrumental in getting our ex-city councilperson to drop out of the mayoral race...but it happened right after we were mentioned in the paper as working to oppose his candidacy.

    Yes. working at the local level is important. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the State and Federal level.