1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Emission Comparison: Prius / HS250h / Insight / Civic Hybrid / Jetta (Gas+TDI) / WRX STI

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by usbseawolf2000, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Yes, sir! Volt's carbon monoxide can surely kill if the ICE runs in the garage. I hope the engine maintenance (every 6 weeks) or fuel maintenance (every year) does not run while the car is charging in the garage. It could be lethal.

    Priuses_Volt.png
     
    2 people like this.
  2. ualdriver

    ualdriver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    358
    61
    0
    Location:
    Midwest US
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    How about a chart that has that has a "regular" car like a Ford Taurus or a Chevy Malibu or similar compared to these various hybrids? I'm curious if there is a big difference.
     
  3. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    In case you missed the first post, I included Jetta gas version, Civic gas version and WRX STi.

    I plan to do a comparison with the Chevy Cruze 1.4 liter turbo engine. It is the same engine as the Volt but without turbo.
     
  4. ualdriver

    ualdriver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    358
    61
    0
    Location:
    Midwest US
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I was just wondering if a "normal" mid-sized sedan (V6) was much worse than the smaller cars you had on your bar graphs.

    I'm also curious why the Volt's carbon monoxide grams/mile was so high compared to the others in post 21 (assuming engine is even running).
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,123
    15,389
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Would you have the CO standard handy?

    That is an exceptionally bad CO result and the others aren't too good either. It is as if someone in GM decided play a practical joke:
    "Ok, here is your d*mn EV but the engine exhaust will kill ya'."
    Seriously, this needs to be shared with the 'automotive press.'

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    CO Standard for SULEV is 1.0 g/mi. For ULEV, it is 2.1 g/mi. Volt produces 1.3 gram of carbon monoxide per mile.
     
  7. Much More Better

    Much More Better Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    655
    162
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I love my Prius even more now.
     
  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    1 person likes this.
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,531
    4,062
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Just another data point showing what a bad choice of engine gm made. I wonder what the pollution and fe would be if they shoe horned the 1.8L prius engine in there? In a serial hybrid which the volt is most of the time you would think you could pick a power range that polluted less than a normal car, yet they pump out more than the cruize and Malibu.
     
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    This is really a reminder that there is more to a green car than it's electric mile. The benefit of on-board generator comes into question. If it is not used enough, why have it? Since it is there, the MPG and emission it produces is an important part of the equation.
     
  11. narf

    narf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    611
    44
    4
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    to be fair, the WRX was designed with very little thought to emmisions, it's purely a boy-racer car. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of a PZEV outback with other green cars, since it's being marketed as a better green alternative to hybrids. (you know, no evil batteries fouling the environment!)
     
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Good point. Here is a comparison of WRX STi and the Volt. NOx is probably too high for STi to qualify for ULEV.

    I think this chart puts the Volt's emission into perspective.

    WRX STi Volt.png
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    And just think, the central plant providing the EV miles is *worse*

    Your graphs are very entertaining, but can we have CO split off into its own box ? All the other emissions appear homogenized because of the high CO values, even though substantial differences exist between engines.
     
  14. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  15. ualdriver

    ualdriver Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    358
    61
    0
    Location:
    Midwest US
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Interesting......its says it is asking GM about the high CO as it might be related to a cold start issue.
     
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Every hybrid has to deal with cold start issue. Prius has the exhaust heat recovery system to speed it up. Honda hybrids, Malibu and Cruze don't have this but still managed to get low CO emission.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I used the CARB STD numbers for the Volt to color in the appropriate CARB *LEV box for each pollutant. The Volt is not that far away from dropping into diesel territory, aka federal BIN II tier 5 -- the lowest allowed in CA.

    Addendum: I changed the CO box from 120k to 50k miles. Incidentally, I do not understand how the HCHO of 0.011 g/mile result did not drop the Volt into LEV class.
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  18. seftonm

    seftonm Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    408
    78
    2
    Location:
    Winnipeg, MB
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Emission Comparison: Prius / HS250h / Insight / Civic Hybrid / Jetta (Gas+TDI) / WRX STIH

    Gasoline is around 250x more volatile than diesel. So they may not even have bothered testing the TDI. But I would expect the evaporative emissions to be quite low for it.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Kudos to Dennis for navigating the CARB website. Uggh.
    However, I did find this tidbit that might interest some people here -- the Prius plug-in
     

    Attached Files:

  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Wow, I must have missed it. Do you have a link to the PDF? I can put it in my spreadsheet and get the charts out.