"LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- General Motors Corp. (GM) Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said Wednesday that the U.S. needs to reduce dependence on foreign energy and insisted the No. 1 auto maker is accelerating its efforts to meet the challenge by being the first to offer a plug-in hybrid and by expanding its production of biofuel vehicles." "Wagoner said GM is using the Saturn Vue hybrid sport utility vehicle to develop a plug-in hybrid, which can be re-charged from a standard electrical outlet, and will offer biofuel-capable Hummer SUVs." "If GM is first to market with a plug-in hybrid, it could help sway consumer perception that GM and U.S. auto makes aren't as committed to fuel efficiency as foreign-based auto makers." http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Stor...mp;dist=myyahoo
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HBO6 @ Nov 29 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]355261[/snapback]</div> Who in their right mind would believe this, from the king of liars, Wagoner. Remember? "Oh, we HAD to scrap the EV1's cuz no one wanted them". or how 'bout, "We make gas guzzlin' SUV's because the stupid consumers WANT them .... it's not our marketing guru's pandering to your low self esteem". or how 'bout, "NOOOOO ... there wasn't a waiting list of THOUSANDS for the EV1" only later to be authenticated that there WAS in fact such a waiting list ... to which GM later had to "explain away". Well I wanted an EV1, even tho they only made it a 2-seater, and even tho GM would only lease them ... which is the most deliberate way to sabotage marketing, because most people want to buy cars outright ... and tho most want 4-seaters. Don't get me started on that Wagoner cheez ball ... that's a guy who'll say what ever he can, to suit his audience.
It's an outright lie designed to boost the stock market. It will take a few years? They could have this thing in showrooms next fall if they wanted to. Hell, next spring if they really wanted to. They'll never offer this thing for sale. Nate
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Nov 29 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]355286[/snapback]</div> Are you willing to back that by... oh, I dunno... eating a prius (every bolt and panel, but we'll leave out the glass) if they do?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Nov 29 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]355286[/snapback]</div> Toyota could have had plug-in hybrids in the showroom today if they really wanted to. But noooo!!!! Today they said they don't even have plans right now to build plug-in hybrids. They claim there's still a lot of basic research to do!!! Those bastards!!!!! Reuters article <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Reuters @ 11/29/06")</div>
I'll do better than that, I'm willing to back that by offering to buy one at MSRP from malorn. I'm dead serious. So, let's establish terms of "money where my mouth is" right now: -I will buy this vehicle: -If GM is first to market -If it truly plugs in -if it offers better mileage than a reasonable non-plug-in from anybody else -if it offers even 5 miles of useful all-electric range, or 10 miles or more of blended range (substantial boost of MPG's). I will pay MSRP, I will get on a waiting list, and I will sing the praises of the vehicle. Believe me, if the day ever comes, I will buy the car with a smile. But it never will. Or, it will come so unbelievably late after Toyota comes to market that it won't matter. Nate
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Nov 29 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]355299[/snapback]</div> It would help if Toyota had plans to market one.
Well, god bless 'em for at least trying to get with the 21st century even though they still cling stubbornly to the pie-in-the-sky hydrogen fuel cell fantasy and E85 as a get-off-of-foreign-oil-but-keep-on-a-guzzlin' ploy to keep selling their cash cow SUVs and pickups. I hope that they come up with a really good plug-in hybrid that actually competes with the Prius but knowing their inability to do anything really well, I'll believe it when I see it. I'll root for them in their efforts though.
21st century? They have been stuck in about 1970 (pre-Arab oil embargo price shock) and haven't taken small cars or better mileage (or quality) seriously since then. I'd love to buy GM (or other American) but they just don't offer what I want. And if they would "un-GM-ify" Saturn then they might have a chance...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Nov 29 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]355349[/snapback]</div> well yeah, duh. I KNOW they've been stuck in the past for a long time now but at least they're TRYING to get with the 21st century. As for Saturn, the UAW cancer has spread to Spring Hill so you can kiss that different car company good bye.
it would be great if they could pull this off. however, and i hate to be a buzzkill, i and many people i know would hesitate to buy it simply because they can't seem to get a conventional car right... :blink:
Let's give GM some credit here. I mean, I'm not a GM fan, but we can't complain when they lag Toyota and Honda in hybrid/electric vehicle production, and then complain again when they try to get out in front. If they product this vehicle AND if it has any kind of electric range at all....I WILL buy one. At the end of the day, companies can't stay in business while loosing money on their products, and unless it pays off for GM (or any other manufacturer), we'll keep getting the same dismal SUVs that we have seen so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Nov 29 2006, 03:58 PM) [snapback]355352[/snapback]</div> To blame the UAW for the Big 3's problems is absurd. The domestic auto industries problem, is that they are run by shortsighted bean counters who ignore their engineers ,employees, and consumers.Their priority is only the next quarter's profit.They are in the business of making money.If they can make profit selling dinosaur gas guzzlers then that is what they will produce. Obviously they can no longer make money selling outdated junk. If the management of the Big 3 had had any foresight they would currently be positioned as the worlds leader in hybrid technology. Clinton /Gore gave them head start funding for the hybrid's development and the Big3 threw the opportunity away. That decision,not UAW benefits, was what affected the lives of every autoworker and ultimately the economy of our country. Contrast that with Japanese companies which have engineers as their CEOs and on their Board of directors.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bryanmsi @ Nov 29 2006, 04:20 PM) [snapback]355363[/snapback]</div> I don't think folks are complaining as much as being skeptical of their PR attempts. I'd certainly be interested in their plug-in hybrid, and as someone who was around in the'60s and saw what GM could do when they put their mind to it, I'd love to see them do something bold and innovative, I thought that 1965 Corvair I had was the sweetest car ever, for its time.
It is too early to make sweeping statements or accusations of lying in my view, but when the press release said "He didn't give a time frame for the plug-in, but said it will take 'several years' to bring one to market." I had the sinking feeling that he was really saying "never". One can cry"WOLF" only so many times before no one pays attention any more. The time has come for GM to deliver or shut up and fold its tent.
GM has said over and again they do not know how to build and sale hybrids profitably. I believe them. Later, Lutz said that hybrids offering are necessary from a marketing perspective for PR purposes. Translation IMO: GM will produce a few thousand over-priced hybrids that few will want, satisfying their self-fulfilling prophecy. Yawn. My crystal ball is less clear regarding plug-ins. Mostly I think that if Toyota considers the option too expensive at this time, then that is double true for GM. I'll be amazed if GM comes to market with a plug-in before Toyota. And honestly, if they due, despite my really really wanting a plug-in, I doubt I would buy GM. Their history is to screw their customers, and reliability is awful. Not a hot combination for bleeding edge technology.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bryanmsi @ Nov 29 2006, 01:20 PM) [snapback]355363[/snapback]</div> I don't think anybody would complain about them trying or succeeding to be "out in front." The complaints come from all the hype, and no product. These guys HAD the lead in EV technology with the EV1. They didn't just throw it away, they frist pried it out of drivers' hands, then told us we didn't want the cars, and THEN paid money to have each car crushed... er... recycled. That's how they've shown environmental leadership so far. Just a month after the termination of the EV1 program, the Hummer H2 was introduced. If they actually produce something that "leads the way" I'll be all over it, as I was with the EV1. Until then, it is just so many words. This is the same company that just three years ago publicly stated that Americans don't want hybrids, and that GM would continue to build the cars that Americans wanted. Then they tried a "hybrid" and we got the Silvarado which simply turned the engine off at stop lights, and had an inverter to run some power tools off the truck's battery. Whoopdeedoo. These guys also have a lot of work ahead of them to be the first to market with 1 million Fuel Cell vehicles. Do they have the resources to perfect BOTH new technologies? I hear the words, I don't see the product. I want to believe. I really do. Having lived through the EV1 ordeal, I also realize that no GM lie is too outlandish, however.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 29 2006, 06:17 PM) [snapback]355393[/snapback]</div> Or worse ... they'd be GREAT. But G.M. would only LEASE them. And then GM would take 'em back ... seeing how BAD they made their high profit gas guzzlers look. "See? ... we tried ... but there was nooo market!!"
News flash- This just in from the LA Auto show (really!). This guy was escorted off the stage right after Wagoner gave his keynote speech to kick off the show. I thought it was quite topical!
its easy to say that something is in development, but no time line, no spec goals, no nothing. there is no guts needed for that kind of announcement
