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Has anyone installed the enginer PHEV?

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by alevinemi, May 28, 2009.

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  1. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    Has anyone installed the enginer.us PHEV modification? The price is reasonable, and they are located near where I used to live (Troy, MI).

    It seems to be a small lithium pack (only the size of the compartment between the trunk bottom and spare tire well). Considering the price they quote and what they offer, I am suspicious (way cheap compared to competitors - may be too good to be true).

    If so, let me know your experience. I was considering driving by next time I was near Detroit.

    Innovative Engine Engineers

    -->Adam
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Sounds good, however if you check the Seller's ebay Feedback ... it looks like he's only sold ONE ... other than the one they're currently trying to sell. And the one they sold?

    http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...henyj&iid=200344551230&de=off&items=25&page=1

    It says, "feedback revised" to a "neutral" rating. IOW, the seller got Neg'd and the bad feedback likely prompted the seller to accept the item back, so the buyer would upgrade the feedback.
  3. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    Actually, I looked at the feedback as well. As far as I can tell, they haven't sold any of them. The neutral feedback was for a single $250.00 battery pack - not a $2000 PHEV conversion.

    Other battery packs were sold with positive feedback, so I'm willing to forgive one neutral. Plus, if I buy one, I won't pay shipping (I'd pick-up). However, they really should test the battery before shipping...

    They are obviously new to the game. Given the location (Troy, MI), they are probably laid off automotive engineers. They are obviously weak on marketing skills - the website is very weak, and it's only sold through ebay. However, they may have a good product.

    I have asked some questions, and hope to give more details later.

    -->Adam
  4. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    I've been in contact with Jack from Automotive Tech..

    The system kinda sounds legit(not sure).. at least from the engineering standpoint.

    The system utilizes a 48V battery pack(12V (3.2x4) Thundersky 40AH batteries) that are connected to a DC/DC converter and controller. The controller monitors if there's any current going in or out of the traction pack. In the case that there is no current entering or leaving the pack, the plugin pack will push current into the traction battery pack. When current leaves the battery pack, the DC/DC converter will push current into the HEV system to "help out the traction battery".

    I thought the Prius was supposed to use more power from the battery if the SOC is raised or tricked. That's how the Hymotion and Plug-in Supply kits work. This is clearly different.

    I'll be testing the kit in mid-June in Southern California Summer conditions.

    I'll let you guys know how it works out.

    I've posted a few things about the Plug-in Supply kit that I currently own in the PHEV forum.. I'm just testing out different options :)
    2 people like this.
  5. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    Good info - Thanks for checking it out!

    Sounds like it might be dangerous though from a warranty/traction battery life standpoint.

    From what you are describing, if you 'stealth glide' and no power is going in/out of the traction battery, the Enginer pack will charge it. If you glide a lot, this could get you into a situation that your main battery gets overcharged or highly charged a lot, a situation which the Prius normally prevents to preserve battery life. I would hope they have a mechanism to prevent going over 90% charge or so.

    That would likely shorten traction battery life and invalidate your battery warranty (it could cause a failure that was directly caused by an aftermarket addon. Magnuson-Moss ain't protecting you here.)

    -->Adam



  6. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    anyone notice the pack inside a 2004 + model and the pictures from the MFD are from the pre 2004 model gen1.
  7. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    when you charge the pack the SOC wil rize..
    if this gets to high the prius will lose some so no wurries there.
  8. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    All PHEV packs basically work the same from my understanding... The Hymotion and Plug-in supply pack both attempt to sneak in power when the Prius isn't looking. That's how it works(I think).

    I know the Hymotion and Plug-in supply pack both spoof the SOC charge to some where around 75-85%, the Enginer pack does not.

    Can't wait to get a hold of the pack in a bit!!!
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    so you already have plugin supply kit and now your taking that out to so how this pack works?
  10. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    Kinda sorta kinda ;)

    Honestly, looking at the engineering standpoint of this pack, it looks pretty legit; it looks really promising to me..

    If no one buys my 2009 Prius with the PHEV installed(I'm selling it in the Private Sales part of PriusChat), I'll remove the Plug-in supply kit and replace it with the Enginer kit.

    If someone does buy my 2009 Prius with the PHEV, i'll be purchasing a package 4 2010 prius :). From the looks of it, the 2010 prius should also be able to support the Enginer pack.

    The only reason why this pack actually works on all generations of the prius is due to the fact that these guys went around the Canbus system..

    We shall see :)

    I'll either be the first one to have a PHEV in a 2010 Prius or a PriusChat test subject for the Enginer PHEV pack.. I hope. ;)
    1 person likes this.
  11. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    i dont think the guys went around the canbus
    the basic callcars system with contactors works the same
    injesting power to the plugin pack and system from a higher voltage batterypack
    in this case a higher voltage DC-DC converter from 48 volts to XXX volts.

    the new prius ( did you see the pictures ) got socket and plug connections on the wire's from the cells to the current sensor and is not that easy to converter

    we have to see and wait of anyone is willing to opne up there system for us all to see what can be done (easily )
  12. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    This system does NOT spoof or modify any Canbus packets. The reason why other companies such as Plug-in supply and Hymotion spoof the packets is to trick the prius into using more battery power to raise the MPG. This system should still have the same effect by charging the battery to a higher SOC.

    Pictures of the hybrid battery pack connections? That doesn't sound too hard..

    Is this it?

    [​IMG]
  13. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    i am looking for the picture i got from the + and - Lines
    then you can see what i mean.
  14. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    Let me know how it goes (how easy to install, etc...). I'm seriously considering buying this. It's the first PHEV mod I've seen that would have a positive return on investment, given how I drive and how long the pack is supposed to last. However, I don't want to be their first guinea pig.

    I'm in an unusual situation that I drive 17k miles/year, with a break at home for about 4-5 hours mid-day. So, I would charge twice a day instead of once. That improves ROI.

    I'm one of those greedy green people. I buy energy saving gizmos that yield at least a 5-6% ROI.

    So far, Hymotion and Plug-in power don't qualify.

    -->Adam
  15. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    You will need more than one of those "enginer" gizmos in order to provide and equal "voltage power" to the HSD.
  16. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    There is NOT a really ROI in this types of investments, but is a great feeling driving with no exhaust in the tail pipe
  17. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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  18. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    That was true for previous PHEV's I have analyzed, this one gets very close to positive IRR (assuming the numbers are close to right)

    For this PHEV, the math:

    Initial Cost: $2000 (2KWH version)
    MPG without mod: 50 MPG
    MPG with mod: 75 MPG
    Miles Driven: 17k/year or 48/day, 2 charges/day
    Fuel Savings per day (at $3/gal): $0.96
    Battery Life: 2000 days
    Total Fuel Savings: $1,920

    Thus, near zero IRR. You could do better with a savings account at 2%, but the IRR is close to zero. If you factor in the fact:
    - I strongly belive that gas is going to go up in price a lot more than $3.00. I think a $4-5 average over the next 5 years is realistic.
    - The cost of batteries will be lower when you repurchase.
    - You have higher residual value in the vehicle.
    - You have the value of the non-battery PHEV parts.

    IRR could very well be positive.

    -->Adam
  19. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I would like to see your $2000.00 PHEV conversion........
    This thread is about an eBay seller offering a Lithium Ion LiFePO4 batteries assemblies at 12V nominal @ $250.00 a piece, plus shipping.
    For a workable PHEV conversion you need 20 of these plus a suitable charger, about $900 and a BMS for, at least, each 12V assembly, another 40 a piece and the cheap conversion KIT from Plug-In Supply( CalCars contactor type).
    Playing with this type of toys doesn't become cheap as you think.
  20. alevinemi

    alevinemi New Member

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    You are looking at the wrong ebay ad. They do sell batteries, but they also claim to sell the full kit, in a 2KWH and 4KWH version.

    The other PHEV mods I have seen are $5-$10k, which is out of my price range. I am suspicious of this one because it seems so much cheaper than competitors, but it looks like Keityyyy is willing to try it first.

    Ebay ad:
    Prius Plugin PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion - eBay (item 200344551230 end time Jun-19-09 23:25:01 PDT)

    -->Adam
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