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Help! Prius trashed at son's school eco day!

Discussion in 'Gen III 2010+ Prius Main Forum' started by seb33, Mar 22, 2012.

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  1. seb33

    seb33 New Member

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    My son had an eco day at school today and they had 3 organizations in to give talks. One Group's speaker told the students (grade 6-8) that hybrid cars and the Prius in particular were not eco friendly and in fact were worse to own than a Hummer in terms of the environment. My son is obviously very confused having heard a school endorsed speaker tell him his mom's car is worse than any other car on the market including the Hummer. I obviously gave him my perspective but I want to follow up with the school. Does anyone know of any links to easily accessible factual information to dispute this speaker and perhaps enable me to make sure that this speaker is not going around to many schools and influencing children and teenagers about their future choice of cars. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Obviously, I did not hear the information first hand, and I am getting my son's account of the talk, and I will ask the school to provide me with more information about what was actually said during this talk, but the general message my son received was a very negative message regarding hybrid cars.
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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  3. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    Whack-a-mole!
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  4. seb33

    seb33 New Member

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    Its one thing to think that people are still spewing that garbage but this was a presentation to students at my son's SCHOOL!!!! I am livid!!! I am calling the principal and his teacher first thing in the morning but I can't believe that a so called environmental speaker is the person who spoke about this. Even after refuting the claims to my son, my son says, "Mom, this person is an Expert on the environment, and you are not!"
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Yeah, I would contact the teacher and principle and provide them with the various rebuttals to the Dust to Dust report. There is even a newer report from the same author which essentially apologizes for the first report and shows the Prius is definitely more environmentally friendly than the Hummer and other SUVs.

    Take those documents with you and see if you can force the issue such that the kids are thought the truth and that other schools in the area do not use these presenters (clowns).
  6. seb33

    seb33 New Member

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    Thank you so much for your help. If my own son can be so easily influenced, I can only imagine what the other students took away from that talk. I will definitely make sure that that presenter does not present the same talk to other schools. I am still in shock! This has been very distressing for me, to hear that this occurred at my son's school. I'm thinking of going to the school with my own presentation to give the children ACCURATE information!!
  7. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I don't have links handy or figures, but I do recall that something like over 70% of the total energy usage of a vehicle (including raw materials, production, burning gas, everything, off to junkyard) ...

    is due to burning the fuel, the gasoline. Prius gets at least 3 times the fuel economy of a Hummer.

    Prius does cost a few percentage points more to produce than similar conventional cars, but it uses much less of everything from cradle to grave than a Hummer.
  8. adamace1

    adamace1 Senior Member

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    Thats just sad. if a prius uses more fuel to make than a hummer burns in it's life time how would Toyota sell a car for 23grand that costs over 40 grand in fuel to make.
  9. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    This article and many others debunk the original CNW junk report.

    Environmental Pollution | Prius v. Hummer - ReliableAnswers.com

    edited...

    Spinella *claimed* "The Hummer over the lifetime of the vehicle ends up being less of a drain of energy on society in general than does the Prius," wrote Spinella in his report. A key-determining factor was the hybrid battery's use of nickel extracted from a Sudbury, Ontario mine that has emitted so much sulfur dioxide that acid rain has turned a once healthy nearby forest into a bleak landscape. That mine, however, which supplies nickel for many industrial purposes and not just hybrid batteries, has cut pollution 90 percent since the 1970s.

    Another common criticism of hybrids is that their batteries will be a pollution threat once they land in the junkyard. But hybrid advocates insist that the nickel-metal hydride batteries found in the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and other hybrids contain far fewer pollutants than the lead-acid varieties used in traditional cars. And initial worries that hybrid batteries would need replacement every few years have not borne out;

    Jim Kliesch, research analyst with the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE), which publishes a yearly rating of the "Greenest and Meanest" cars, says the CNW study contradicts many other studies, including those conducted by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Carnegie Mellon, Argonne National Labs, the Union of Concerned Scientists and others that place the green-friendliness of the Prius and other hybrids head and shoulders above many other vehicles and certainly the Hummer.

    Spinella is "way off the mark," says Kliesch, and scolds CNW for not having "Dust to Dust" peer-reviewed for accuracy. "If you do some back-of-the-envelope calculations on their claims," he says, "you'll find that it takes about $286,500 in energy to produce and assemble a Prius, [which is] absurd."

    Toyota itself also disputes CNW's findings. In a short rebuttal published in the Washington Post, Toyota vice-president Irv Miller said that the increased energy requirement to build a hybrid with two engines under the hood "is overwhelmingly made up for in the driving stage."
  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Find out what groups the people represented. Campaigning groups are always very willing to go into schools. Give me a boy and all that. Now you know how AGW skeptics felt about An Inconvenient Truth being shown to children. ;)
  11. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    To the OP, this report at the school is just FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) a marketing, business tactic to spook people.

    Fact is, GM, Ford and Chrysler do not have anything to stack up against Prius (which is now the family of Pri)...

    the best that fearful, pissed off, skeptical individuals can do is spread FUD until Prius can eventually be copied ...

    and it will be copied. Only a matter of time. Until then, Toyota owns the market share.
  12. sooperedd

    sooperedd Junior Member

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    The speaker probably drives a Hummer. :rolleyes:
  13. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Also, notice when gas prices go higher and inevitably Prius sales increase, all the FUD increases. Like said, we (US) have no competitive car to date, so unfortunately some resort to bad mouthing.
  14. seb33

    seb33 New Member

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    "To the OP, this report at the school is just FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) a marketing, business tactic to spook people."

    I realize that. Which is why I am so upset that it was presented at my son's school, to a group of impressionable students. I really want to get to the bottom of this and make sure that it does not continue at other schools and I would like a retraction of sorts to be announced at my son's school.
  15. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I'd be livid, too. Schools should teach people how to think, not what to think. Especially when it's wrong. That's inexcusable. Unfortunately, everybody knows how easy it is to influence school-aged children, and the race is on to win hearts and minds. Organisations like the Heartland Institute are only too happy to 'help'.

    Heartland Department of Education - YouTube
  16. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Senior Member

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  17. Dog Face

    Dog Face New Member

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    CNW amended its initial findings a year after its initial report. It's unbelievable that someone would visit schools quoting CNW on something that it no longer is willing to defend.[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNW_Marketing_Research"][/ame]
  18. Dog Face

    Dog Face New Member

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    Hummer versus Prius
    “Dust to Dust” Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science"
    Dr. Peter H. Gleick

    "The CNW Marketing Research, Inc.’s 2007 “Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles
    From Concept to Disposal” caught the interest of the media and the public with its claim that a
    Hummer H3 SUV has a lower life-cycle energy cost than a Toyota Prius hybrid. Closer
    inspection suggests that the report’s conclusions rely on faulty methods of analysis, untenable
    assumptions, selective use and presentation of data, and a complete lack of peer review. Even the most cursory look reveals serious biases and flaws: the average Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 miles and last for 35 years, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over less than 12 years. These selective and unsupported assumptions distort the final results. A quick re-analysis with peer-reviewed data leads to completely opposite conclusions: the life-cycle energy requirements of hybrids and smaller cars are far lower than Hummers and,other large SUVs. CNW should either release its full report, including methods, assumptions, and data, or the public should ignore its conclusions. Unfortunately, “Dust to Dust” has already distorted the public debate."

    http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf
  19. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I've actually posted a little too much on a 'i hate Prius' facebook page which will probably just get me more response notices in my email, but they use the phone book of excuses...

    One guy thinks Prius and developing hybrid technology takes away from more important development into hydrogen fuel cells... yeah, right. there's hydrogen filling stations on every corner, don't you know. His logic also that hybrids also keep people hooked on gas longer.... I'm still thinking that one over .... J/K

    Then there's the rednecks ... 'I ain't buying no japanese made car, I'ma drive my Dodge Ram with 14 MPG' .... well, you go right ahead sir.
  20. seb33

    seb33 New Member

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    Thank you...the video is amazing and very informative. Just what I needed. I am going to ask the teacher to show it to the classes who were present at today's presentation. I will also forward the many documents with information from a variety of sources. Thanks to all who contributed, your efforts are very much appreciated!
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