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I can't trust my dealerships, transmission fluid?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by mountaintodd, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. mountaintodd

    mountaintodd Junior Member

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    My local dealerships are scaring me, transmission fluid?

    My wife and I recently purchased an 07 Prius with 97,000 miles on it, and after looking at Toyota's recommended service/maintenance schedule and the cars past records I noticed that the transaxle/transmission fluid hasn't been changed.

    So, I called the Asheville dealership (who has serviced the car throughout), and asked the guy why the transmission fluid hasn't been changed yet when Toyota recommends that it be done at 60k miles. At first he said "that is odd and that he thought that it should of been done every 30k miles". While he's double checking the cars records, he says, "Yep, it should of been done at 60k miles, but it wasn't". So, I asked him again "why it was never done, shouldn't that service be provided under warranty". Then he proceeds to put me on hold for several minutes supposedly to answer a couple other phone calls, which I think is completely wrong and rude. Finally, he answers and tells me "that the warranty doesn't cover that service, it ends at 60k miles and that the previous owner must not have wanted to do it then". He then tells me "that if I do it now that I would be jeopardizing damaging the transmission and slippage may occur". Since that sounded ridiculous to me, I ask "why" and he says "because the existing debris inside and at the bottom of the transmission is were it should be". Well, I'm sure it is, but I want my transmission to work for another 100k miles or more. So, I challenge his knowledge and then he tells me "that in fact that those transmissions don't need servicing because they have what is considered to be life time fluid in them". Again, shocked because I've been reading about all the Prius owners on here draining and refilling theirs, I decide to say "that is ridiculous", and he offers the phone to another guy who tells me "that in order to change the fluid I would need a monitor temp. scanning tool because before you add new fluid the transmission case needs to be a certain exact temperature or something". So I reply, but what about the life time fluid, I thought that it didn't need to be changed ever". He replies, "It can be done, but in his mind it would be a big waste of time and money. So, I ask him, why does the Toyota service/maintenance schedule say that it is supposed to be done at 60k? He told me that the Toyota manuals are very generic and that sometimes they don't cover everything. OK, whatever.

    So, back to the Prius Chat forum I go (thank you all) to do some more research on the subject of changing the transaxle/transmission fluid. The last thing I want to do is get screwed or screw up our new 07' Prius. It appears that some of you have found out that it should really be done every 30k miles. It also appears that it's not too difficult of a job if you have a little mechanic knowledge. Personally, I love learning about and servicing my own vehicles, and our new Prius is very exciting!!

    So, I send my wife over to our local dealership (who have already proven to be horrible) to pick up four quarts of WS Toyota ATF and a drain plug. She calls me and tells me that they are saying that, "I can't do it myself and that the job requires a certifed Toyota mechanic and that it needs to be flushed". What? So, I ask my wife to let me talk with the guy and he tells me that his service tech says so and that I need special tools because it needs to be flushed and it requires 15 quarts of fluid!! What? So again, just like the other dealership I tell him "that sounds ridiculous, all I want to do is drain and refill it and that it supposedly requires just 3.8 quarts"! Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm right? I wouldn't think a Mack truck would need that much fluid. I told the guy that, and he didn't have an explanation. So after taking a deep breathe, I asked for four quarts of WS Toyota ATF and a drain plug please. When I got back on the phone with my wife I told her that the drain plug shouldn't cost more than two bucks (I read on a thread that it really should be more like a dollar). When my wife got home she said that she didn't get anything because the guy said they didn't have the drain plug in stock and that it would take a week to get there, and that it was going to cost over four dollars!! She also told me that the guy was young and that he appeared to be embarrassed and her vibe was that he didn't know what he was talking about either. However, three other guys were near the whole conversation and never said anything.

    So now I don't know what or who to believe. One of the first life lessons that we learn is that you shouldn't trust strangers. I also know that you shouldn't believe everything you hear. What's with these dealerships? How can they be so unknowledgeable, careless and contradicting? I'm in total shock that they would hire someone and allow them to answer questions for people when they aren't educated enough to do so. I don't know what to do other than go elsewhere and hope to find better services. It's especially sucks because we're at the mercer of the dealerships. I want to have a good relationship with them, but when you get a bunch of BS, no way.

    Sorry to vent out on my dealership experiences. I'm not saying that all dealerships are bad, I'm sure it's just a few bad apples in a bunch of good ones. All I want is the correct information and help. I'm hoping that some of you can renew my faith in dealerships and the transmission fluid in our Prius. Please reassure me that it's OK for me to drain and refill my own transaxle/transmission fluid, and that I have nothing to worry about doing it for the first time at 97k miles? Also, I am curious to know what other's have paid for the fluid and the drain plug?

    Thanks so much for all your time and help!
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It is OK for you to drain and refill the ATF transaxle fluid for the first time at 97K miles. This is a simple process as has been posted numerous times.

    I've paid ~$9 per US quart for the Toyota ATF WS fluid. Others have paid less, it depends upon your local area. The aluminum washers should cost ~$1 each.

    BYW, the Toyota maintenance schedule does not require the transaxle ATF fluid to be changed at 60K mile intervals. The fluid is to be inspected per the schedule, not replaced.

    I've also found that some parts counter clerks are very reluctant to sell Toyota ATF WS. You would think this was a powerful drug that requires a prescription, or something...
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    With the exception of the 2 years of free maintenance (Complimentary Maintenance Plan - Toyota Care) that Toyota began offering in late 2010 (October?), Toyota warranties do NOT cover paying for any maintenance. Prior to the above (which didn't exist when your 07 was sold), there was no "free" maintenance included at all on any Toyota.

    The consensus here is that the fluid in the PSD is NOT lifetime fluid. I would definitely have it changed on yours.

    FWIW, I'm past 50K miles and haven't had it done yet, but will soon. Some of the interval recommendations people here have come up with are out of precaution (since the PSD is expensive to replace) and because of what the fluid looked like after it was drained.
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Todd,

    This is not a big deal. Change the fluid yourself now and be happy. I follow Patrick (and others) recommendation and change about every 60k miles, but this is more than Toyota expects. I figure it is cheap insurance for an expensive part.
     
  5. Rest

    Rest Active Member

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    I agree in changing the fluids yourself. After all, why let a "Stealership" mess it up and over charge you?

    However, I don't agree that changing fluids sooner is cheap insurance. I hear this all the time for engine oil. It's wasteful, costs you more money and doesn't extend the life of the vehicle. I would just follow Toyota's recommendations, they know the vehicle better than anyone else.
     
  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    If you decide to have a dealership change the fluid for you, make sure they understand that it is a simple process and should not be confused with the transmission fluid change procedure required on the Tacoma trucks. The trucks require a temperature cycling process and fluid flush. The Prius does not. They should not charge you more than 30min worth of labor and the total charge should be less than $120.

    I've found that the dealers in my area were mostly clueless about the Prius transaxle fluid change and wanted to charge me $280+. I found a quality dealer and they did it for $120 which included an oil change.
     
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  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The Toyota maintenance schedule for Prius does not recommend transaxle ATF fluid replacement (only inspection), up to the 120K miles that the schedule covers. Given that, will you assume the transaxle ATF fluid will last for the "lifetime" of the car?
     
  8. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    In my experience, dealerships CANNOT be trusted. Always approach them and their advice with trepidation. Their turnover on "factory trained technicians" is fairly regular and very few dealerships invest in the cost of a true troubleshooter (read: someone who knows the product intimately and expects to be paid accordingly) anymore. What you have is a bunch of trade school flowchart readers. It doesn't matter whether it is a Mercedes or a Hyundai.
     
  9. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I think with all of the evidence presented by Prius owners over the years speaks volumes about the lifetime quality of this fluid. Many people have sent their fluid in for analysis and even at 30k miles the fluid was not in good condition. I'm not sure how you can argue against this body of knowledge unless you were not aware of it. For what it's worth, the dealership tech labeled my fluid as "burnt" during my 127k inspection. lol
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    We are arguing over one more $USD 35 ATF exchange (about 1 gallon of recyclable oil) every 120,000 miles. As I said, very cheap insurance. Cheap to my pocket, and cheap to the environment. Put another way, I spend about 7 cents/mile currently on fuel, and my ATF habit adds another 0.03 cents/mile to the budget. Instead of spending $240, I spend $241.

    3k oil change intervals is a much more meaty topic to complain about waste. 40 exchanges over the same 120k interval compared to two ATF exchanges.
     
  11. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    So if someone changed it every 60,000 miles compared with someone else who changed it every 120,000 miles then over a 120,000 mile interval that person would have used a whole 3.8 quarts extra oil. That's about a thimble full (literally) for every 100 miles. Is that really such a big deal?
     
  12. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    mountaintodd, when you have a dealer do it, remember: get the $100 or so drain and fill, not a $250 flush. In the Prius an ATF flush is just a wallet flush.
     
  13. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Three relevant quotes:

    • "If you can't trust your banker, who can you trust?" - Bret Maverick ;) (as he was scamming the banker to get back stolen money)
    • "Trust but Verify" - Renoldus Magnus (Ronald Regan about dealing with the Soviet Union)
    • "Not changing your ATF (at 60k mile intervals) may make Toyota's claim of Type WS being a Lifetime fluid correct as a failed HSD may end the life of an older Prius." - JeffD
    JeffD
     
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  14. Jim Porta

    Jim Porta Junior Member

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    A drain plug is not the same as a drain plug washer.
     
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