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Opening engine after knocking!!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by nedim, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    First thing first. My English is not perfect, please excuse me if I am giving someone headache trying to understand what the .... I wrote. I will try my best

    Okay I am kind a new to the forum. Yes I fell in love with Prius. That is why I have 2 of those. Both 2010.
    The one I am discussing here has almost 200k miles on it now. Bought it with ~160k miles on it everything was fine.

    Almost two months ago it was around 6 Am when it was around 40F outside. I push the start button and the engine knocks, it continues not for more than 5 sec. After work I start googling and figure out that this is a common issue even with a new 3rd gen Prius. Something to do with the intake manifold I don't know what exactly and if someone can explain that to me I will be really thankful. That was happening almost every morning when it was chilly...

    A month after the knocking started I noticed sometimes it will knock and the ride will be rough even when the car is warm( after driving for a while in the city). That is when I decided I will bring it to the dealership and will ask them to replace that manifold(if that was causing the knock).

    So booked an appointment for Wednesday( it was Sunday night when I did that).

    Monday morning of course there is knocking but not only that, there is a lot of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. It was cold again I knew this wasn't the normal steam coming. After the end of my work day I start the car yes there is knocking and yes there is a lot of white smoke. So that is when I decide to go right to dealer and not wait till Wednesday.

    Two days later they call me and say that it is probably a blown head gasket and there is coolant in the oil . They haven't open anything but for them the knocking is coming from the crankshaft bearings ..( I do not agree with that)

    So there advice is to put a new engine in the car which will cost around 8-9k. They said there is no point of opening the engine and fixing it...

    I told then I can not afford that right know and I took my car back to my apartment complex. So at that point I decide to either fix it my self, part it out or put a new engine myself(used )

    Today is the fourth weekend I am working on the car. finally the Head is down...
    Yes there is water in the cylinders. The head gasket looks just fine I don't see any cracks or anything. But from my knowledge I do know that there can be micro cracks where we can not see just with our eyes. I don't think that there is a cracked engine block or head as well.


    So my questions to the forums are: Where else I can get coolant coming from and going into the cylinders ?

    The whole intake manifold seems pretty complicated to me ...it has coolant inside which makes me thing that it has to do something with that.. but not sure..

    I will post a link with all the pictures I have so far..

    Milenski <---that is the link


    I will really appreciate your help.

    Thanks
     
  2. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    The forum is not allowing me to post a link
     
  3. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Great pics! Was hoping to see pics of the cylinders full of water.

    Blown head gasket is rare on G3. Not many posts about that here. Lots of posts about knocking engines on G2's and a few G3's. Usually its because the owner ran the car low on oil. What has happened is somewhere in its life the motor got severely overheated and either blew the head gasket or warped the head itself but turned a crank bearing first. Must have alot of dtc's lit on the dash.

    But if it was me I would replace the engine with a used motor because the issue is you don't know how bad the oil was contaminated and how long did the engine run on that contaminated oil. New top end wont fix knocking. Usually if you have blue smoke from this scenario the motor is history.

    It would really suck to repair the head and then you have a knocking motor. These little motors don't knock for long and if continued to drive fail pretty spectacularly.

    Your doing the hard part the wrenching. Your almost there for a full motor pull.

    For reference here's an ebay. Call around to boneyards and look in Craigslist lots of parts available for these cars. They get in alot of crashes:

    2012 2013 12 13 Toyota Prius C Hybrid Engine Motor 1 5L | eBay
     
    #4 edthefox5, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  5. PriusGuy32

    PriusGuy32 Prius Driver Extraordinaire

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    Bad news bears, after watching your video. It definitely sounds & loks like you've experienced catastrophic internal engine failure.

    If you heard it knocking 2 months prior, but continued to drive it, you really cannot be expecting a different outcome.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    great work milenski! keep the faith!(y)
     
  7. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    It sure sounds like the intake manifold could be the culprit, is it possible to pressure test it? (I cut a bicycle inner tube in half , attached it to the inlet and outlet and then pumped up the valve with air to check a radiator that was out of the vehicle)
    Was that video taken before you tore the motor down?
    It sounded like the motor quieted down after it burned off the contamination....is that accurate?
     
  8. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Since I had the car the only light I saw on this car was for low tire pressure. And a week after the issue started yes I did saw a check engine light one morning looked the code and it was "P" something which was related to misfire in cylinder 2 or 3 (can't remember exactly)

    yes there are some 3rd gen engines out there but kind of pricey.. + I don't think I have the man power to replace it myself...



    This is the knocking which is pretty common to 3rd gen. I looked it and I read many places that this won't harm anything because it is just misfire.
    Yes this is true. I am sure 99% the knocking is caused by misfire.. There is a video on youtube that a guy figures out that if he disconnects one of the coils it will do the same knocking which proves my theory that this knock is not from the bottom. If there is a knock from the bottom it will be always there.. Where this knock happens only when the transaxle fires the engine then it is there for 5-10 secs and it is gone..

    I do understand that coolant and oil mixture is bad but I would like to figure out how it ended up there ...

    The video in my google drive is from the first week the knocking started..

    The video bellow is not mine.

     
    #8 nedim, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  9. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    How often were you having to add coolant if any? Did you drain the oil and was it milky?
    If the intakes replacement cost is reasonable, I would try a new design intake and of course a new head gasket.
    As I recall it was water collecting (condensation?) in the 2010/11 manifolds that Toyota discovered was causing a lot of start up knocking problems.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i thought those were very intermittent though, not a regular occasion?
     
    PriusGuy32 likes this.
  11. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    I haven't added any coolant. For the 20-30 miles the car was driven it ate almost the tank of coolant. Oh yes the oil was worse than milky. like baby poop....Yes you are right about the new design if I go that way I have to get the newer one. So yes that is my point I was having an issue which was common for those cars but I can't see it will go so bad ?? I don't see how the condensation or even water in the intake manifold will create this situation that I am facing know.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    me neither. never heard of anything like this.
     
  13. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    Sounding more like a head gasket.
    If it was a head gasket, I would expect contamination in one or two cylinders (not all four)
    From the intake pictures I see on the internet, it isn't obvious it has coolant flowing through it. Did you disconnect coolant lines from the intake?
     
  14. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    yes there is once line coming from the block to the intake that is a coolant line for sure. There are two lines on the throttle body which I have no idea why are there they had some pinkish drops.

    I will see if I have time for some more pictures tomorrow after work.. To show you what exactly I mean

    mH9Arz8q07zW3rHBwT8Mwrw.jpg - Google Drive

    1111.jpg - Google Drive

    This is not my intake but mine was similar the yellow circle is the line where a small hose is carrying coolant from the engine block to the intake manifold( I do not understand that at all) mine is as bad as the one on the picture
     
    #14 nedim, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  15. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    What are talking about? This is my recording I uploaded to youtube myself.
     
  16. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Yes I know ... I said there is a guy on youtube that clearly shows that the knocking is coming from a misfire :)
     
  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  18. A617

    A617 Member

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    Been 160k miles (now 200K miles) and no history of the coolant been replaced, it could be a HG failure, You should have done a coolant pressure test before disassemble the engine to identify if the coolant system is leaking into somewhere but if you haven't remove the head yet you it still can be done, just have to reinstall the Water pump Radiator and re install all the water cooling lines and start from there.
     
  19. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Hey there everybody. Engine is out. Will be looking for a new used one. One question. My drive axles poped from the inner cv joint...not a big issue but would like to know what is the grease/oil in those so I can close them.
    I will attach a photi. It was prety liquidy..

    IMG_20141123_120108:nopm:.jpg IMG_20141123_115421:nopm:.jpg
     
  20. A617

    A617 Member

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    may have to hit the dealers for that, they may even have a cv boot kit available.