Peugeot launches 3008 HYBRID4: diesel hybrid crossover

Well since the electric motor is independent, would it be safe to assume it really just helps during stopped to low speed acceleration easing the load on the diesel engine when less efficient?

I dont really see how it would help increase efficiency otherwise???

 

Press-release a bit optimistic regarding emissions, and wrong regarding "best type of engine choice".
Knowing diesels for ages, I still can't understand all the fuss about "driveability superior to hybrids". Turbo-lag, no CVT gearbox...
And comfort issues: when a diesel start/stops, be prepared for a earthquake inside the car, and every low rpm running vibration. I find it horrid.
And costs: when added (not replacing the gearbox like the HSD does), a motor/generator and shafts, and suspension changes, may really put up the price!
Diesel still remains a very complex engine, more costly and heavier, needs turbocharger and also lots of anti-pollution devices. And not really got any simpler, because of keeping alternator (does it?) and starter motor, gearbox, etcetera.

 

I agree with telmo744. Diesels are better than they were - a lot better, but that doesn't mean they're good. Add all the complexities of emission devices etc and you are getting one seriously complex (and more and more expensive) piece of kit.

Diesel has benefits (think buses, trucks and trains) but is quickly heading into a backwater as far as cars are concerned (imho). Emission control is getting too expensive.

 

Wonder if it can run on biodiesel (which we have plenty of here in Texas, thanks to Willie Nelson). It'd sure smell like "French" fries then...

Kidding aside, the concept is very interesting and looks like it can be adapted to other ICE powertrains in the future without much modifications. Certainly a forward-looking design. Put this hybrid mode on a Peugeot 5008 and I'll be first in line...

 

I don't think this diesel hybrid stops the diesel engine when idling. It's more like a conventional diesel powered car with the help of electric motor/generator as the rear wheel drive power source. It still burns fuel during idling but that energy is used towards recharging the traction battery, so it's not totally wasted.

I think this approach has its beauty in its simplicity. The rear motor is totally independant from the engine at the front except the control of the gas and the brake paddles. It's just like a 3rd party add on that anybody can apply this technology. It doesn't have to be a diesel engine, it can be a gas engine too. And the development cost should be quite low.

I wonder if other companies are thinking of doing this. This may not be good enough to rival the Totota HSD, I'm sure this may be the killer app for the Honda IMA or those GM mild hybrids.

 

I think Start-Stop technology may act towards no idling, and mild accelerations being held by the electric motor alone...
And yes, it can be applied to a gas engine, but optimal gear ratio to give its best SFC performances is not very easy to do in a step box (6 speed). Example...Honda CRZ IMA has this limitation, and gives low MPG if not properly driven. Diesel has a good SFC even with a less convenient gear selection. IMO, diesel hybrid still lacks ratio cost-benefit.

 

Maybe next Spring 2011 this 3008 Hybrid4 can be "matched" against Toyota Prius Alpha (also promised for that date)...

 

Sorry I missed reading that. Hmm, that sucks! I can't imagine how smooth a diesel can start & stop all the time. Imagine all the black smoke spewing out whenever a diesel starts

I was hoping that it's like a completely "normal" power train in front supplemented by electric motor at the rear, so that it's VERY cheap to implement. Say if the electric gets bigger, battery gets larger, and the fuel burning ICE gets smaller (like 1L), electric motor becomes the main power source, 4 wheel drive all the time, ICE always charging battery and doesn't stop when idling. Those who can afford buys the higher model with bigger battery with EV mode stopping ICE and lasting longer, highest model becomes a PHEV. Lower models upgradable by adding more battery so people can afford over time. No need to shell out $40000+ like the Chevy Volt.

Anybody can do it, easy. GM, Chrysler, are you listening? It's time to catch up, here's a quick and easy way.

 

I never saw any black smoke when my 2001 TDI started, and haven't seen black smoke at any point in time from my 2010. There's no reason why a diesel can't be started as smoothly as the Prius engine starts.

 

It is mostly the US domestics that spew smoke when they start. I almost think it is a design decision because the rednecks like to see clouds of thick smoke when they start and when they floor it. Very easy to design against as shown by the same companies and their European domestic brands.

 

SCOOTER-level fuel economy from an SUV is coming with the introduction of the world's first full diesel-electric hybrid production vehicle.

Peugeot's 3008 HYbrid4 will arrive in Australia about this time next year boasting fuel economy of 3.8 litres per 100km and pumping out only 99g of CO2 per kilometre which is better than some scooters. Peugeot Automobiles Australia spokesperson Kirin Tipping says it will appeal to people who want an SUV "with a clear conscience".

Peugeot 3008 HYbrid4 due 2011 | carsguide.com.au

Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 coming to China in Dec

 

I wonder how they will cool the electric motor and battery in the back. Air cooling won't be enough so they will have to run coolant pipe to the front radiator?

Sounds interesting but all other possible hybrid architectures are taken by Toyota/Ford, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, and GM.

 

Why won't air cooling be enough?

 

Actually, the hybrid drive helps in several situations:

• speed power demand < electric power available - the diesel is turned off, eliminating the fuel burned to keep the engine turning over at low power. Disable fuel injection and spin the engine with the starter, the power consumed is the energy lost, the overhead, needed by the engine mechanical parts.
• passing power > engine power - during hill climbs and passing, the electric system provides an additional two or more cylinders worth of power on demand so a smaller displacement engine can be used with less engine overhead loss at other times
• regenerative braking - instead of heating brake pads and disks, the energy is captured for use later.

Bob Wilson

 

Disagree with smoothness. Believe me, I have driven lots of new diesels. When started, always vibrate very hard. To acknowledge if Prius starting engine or even running it, is much more difficult.
The reason about less smoothness ina Diesel is physics: much more compression, heavier rotating parts and an ignition (injection) very close to TDC.
And about smoking, you have to be behind the car. I have seen all models smoking, some less than a year old. Most critical part: overtaking, that is, when suddenly floored...When a particulate matter filter trap is applied, in fact no smoke is seen.

 

Apart from when it blocks up completely and puts the car in 'limp home' mode, ensuring a trip to the dealers and the resultant bill for £800/$1240 for a new particle filter.

 

Just a couple of observations to share:

• David K. has a Ford diesel truck he uses to tow his dirt-bikes and trailer. It apparently has some sort of filter-trap system that periodically has to 'burn out' by injecting fuel. These are fairly new systems so their reliability is probably still 'first generation.'
• Denso showed a modulated, ultra-high pressure injection system at the Cobo Center as a 'noise reduction.' It all but eliminated the diesel 'clatter' but I realized it also stretched out the fuel burn so there would be less probability of soot formation.
• Using an independent, electric powered, rear axle has been speculated by the folks at Ecomodder and at least one example tried. The Toyota Estima, a hybrid minivan, has used this approach for many years (yet never been exported to the USA.) At one time, there was a company selling motors that connected to the drive shaft to rear wheels to provide an EV capability for larger vehicles. They were planning to offer regenerative braking but I've lost track of their progress. Speculation, I wonder if there is a 'patent sitter' in the USA waiting to pounce on an axle split, hybrid?

So I'm open minded about this effort but somewhat disappointed they aren't bringing them to our 'play ground.' But I also understand the need to have a dealer network capable of monitoring and maintaining a new architecture. Sad that VW never 'got a clue' about this approach.

Bob Wilson

 

From a hybrid point of view, the front axle has a typical ima system, with even a smaller motor. To solve the problem of independently running the motor they added a second motor to the rear axle. On the face of it this seems like a worse solution than hyundai and infiniti are producing with a second clutch. It does give the car a bullet point of 4 wheel drive, but this likely will not really be much of a 4 wheel drive system, the battery is small and the generator can only provide 8kw. The system would look better if the motors were bigger and the battery pack had higher capacity and power. Then it may truly be able to provide 4wd, and have the advantage of regenerate brakes on both axles. The porsche idea of rwd with a small plug in range and independant motors on each of the front wheels seems like it would maximize the 4wd and hybrid aspects.

From the diesel front, this seems like a fine idea when you don't need to handle US pollution standards. This would add greatly to the price. Adding the diesel technology of di, turbocharging, and egr makes gasoline engines a better choice and less expensive for US and Japan market. Of course you need to develop these engines as the major players are doing. For peugot who does not have such an engine and doesn't export to the US the diesel makes sense.