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    Steve Livingston New Member

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    The 2010 Toyota Prius Plug-in qualifies for the new Green California Carpool sticker on 1/1/12. However the 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in is not listed. The website for checking this is:

    arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm

    Does anyone know if the 2012 plug-in will qualify for a California carpool sticker?
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    DianneWhitmire High PRIUStess

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    There was no 2010 model sold.
    That was the prototype for the car being sold this spring. Once it's available As a 2012, you'll find it listed there and eligible.

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    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Yes 2012 plugin prius qualifies for the HOV sticker. There's no 2010 production PiP you can buy. It's factory demo.
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    gwmort Active Member

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    Never made sense to me that it qualified before it existed to be tested (some powerful lobbying no doubt).
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    mgmb Junior Member

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    With the new HOT Lanes in Southern California on the 110 and the 10, no stickers will be allowed. You will need to be 2 in the car or pay the toll.
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    DianneWhitmire High PRIUStess

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    I have often shook my head (or is that shaken? Not stirred tho!) and said they should have charged waaaay more than $8 bucks for the original yellow sticker... it was only a matter of time before someone figured out how to take the HOV lane and turn it into a toll road somewhere they coould count on a large revenue.

    OMG I cannot wait to get my new green stickers on MY PHEV ... and get out of the traffic. My CA-73 toll road bill is SO high again.. :mad:
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I am SO glad I don't live where the traffic is so horrid that HOV lanes are even considered. But then, heavy traffic was a deal breaker for me when considering where to live.
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    jack520 Junior Member

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    These things are going to sell like hot cakes in California once people find out you can drive in the HOV lanes....

    that is why I signed up for one.

    I figured it will save me 4 entire days of my life every year for at least three years...

    what is that worth?
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    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I like the idea of HOV sticker but it's useless to me. The nearest HOV lane is 85 miles away.
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    9G-man Active Member

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    The new HOT lanes in the Atlanta area have been a total disaster.
    For those who don't know, a HOT lane is a former HOV lane that has been converted to a toll lane.
    Basically here in ATL, nobody is willing to pay the toll and as a result the former HOV lane is now vacant at all hours, and traffic on that 16 mile stretch of I-85 is totally slammed in the morning and evening. It is so bad that our Governor has lowered the toll twice to try and get folks to use the lane. Few takers.
    He has even patetioned the Fed to waive the 3 occupant requirement for no toll, down to 2.

    The Fed. rejected the waiver request. Why is the Federal Government involved, you might ask?
    Well, it's because Federal dollars were used for the project (thanks Obama), and another example of why you don't accept Federal dollars for this kind of project, because our state and Governor has now forfeited its authority over this stretch of road. Everyones hands are tied, but I'm glad the folks here are saying FU to the toll.
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    rogerv Senior Member

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    Hope folks do that here in the Los Angeles area with the pilot HOT lanes. I'm thinking that there will be a lot of Mercedes drivers willing to pay the toll, however.:(
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    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    As a former carpooler (15 years), I have to ask: why are Atlanta commuters so resistant to carpools?

    Around here, the only HOV section requiring 3 riders is one that would be swamped at 2, thereby interfering with transit bus schedules. Only one section had sufficiently unused capacity to be converted to HOT (HOV or Toll), and its HOV threshold remained at 2. While the Toll provision didn't pay its own operating cost the first few years, it finally did this year.

    Tolls are variable, depending on demand. It sounds like Atlanta's toll is fixed, not adjustable on the fly?
    This is because the Feds paid for these lanes in the first place -- before Obama, before Bush-II, before Clinton, even before Bush-I. Here, the first HOV lane was built early in the Reagan era.
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    calbear Member

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    The first toll HOV in northern California is the I680 South corridor from highway 84 down to 237. The toll is variable, going from as low as $0.50 (as far as I've seen) during the mid-day hours to as much as $8.50 (highest I've seen) or more if there's high traffic in the non-HOV lanes. I would assume it's also variable based on how many people are using it. This lane is free for 2+ people, those with stickers (white or upcoming green) or those paying with the fastrak electronic toll system.

    Frankly, south I680 in that area is not one of the areas that really needs the HOV (northbound there is what's really bad) but they're planning to expand the system over time, adding that and more sections of the east and south bays.

    That said, HOVs in general are awesome. I'm currently driving a CNG car with white stickers until the PIP comes in, and it's saving me about 45 minutes a day, or almost 40% of my commute time. That's the only reason I'm getting a PIP. Heck, I might not even plug it in, and not care... since it's only about 15 miles for the charge anyway... That's only 1/3 of a gallon saved. But 45 minutes plus the toll costs saved = priceless.
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    iRun26.2 New Member

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    It's too bad that they don't have a way to verify that you have plugged in. I think they should at least make you sign papers saying that you promise to plug in when you get that HOV sticker. Otherwise your cheating (at least in the spirit of the law).
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    evfinder Member

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    Orange County built both toll roads like the 73 that Diane uses and the Fastrack Lane on the 91 freeway. The 73 Freeway has been a total disaster. It was built to take some of the load of the 405 especially around the El Toro Y but the road is very lightly used. The toll is 4:50 and it would save me about 10 minutes each way if I used that rather than the 405 to 133, but at $4.50 each way I'd rather fight the traffic. The toll on the 91 Freeway HOT lanes is variable but only in a very narrow range of say $3.75 to $4.50. When I drive on the 91 it always at off peak times yet I still see people in the HOT lane even when traffic is low on the regular lanes so people just pay the toll without thinking about it. Personally I hope people don't pay out the toll for the HOT lanes. Once people realize that the Toll is a Tax by another lane they may be less willing to shell out the cash.
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    calbear Member

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    They've obviously done a much better job of the variable pricing on the 680 toll HOV...It has a wide spread and seems to match quite well with the traffic volume.
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    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That certainly doesn't allow much room to regulate demand.

    I believe the Hiway 167 HOT lanes here have a range of $0.50 to $9.75. But now that they have figured out what drivers are willing to pay while still getting some of them into the lane, average fare is settling in at $0.75 - 1.00, with peak hours hitting $1.50-1.75, and no toll at all overnight.
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I thought the whole idea of HOV lanes was to reduce traffic congestion by getting people to carpool. What they should really do, rather than convert HOV lanes to HOT lanes, is impose a toll on everyone on the freeway driving without a passenger.

    Going all the way back to 2004, the discussion here on Prius Chat suggests that people think the purpose of the lanes is to encourage people to buy hybrid cars. But any exceptions to the carpool requirement only increase traffic in the HOV lane, decreasing the incentive for people to carpool. Why carpool when you can just buy a Prius or other eligible car? Basically it creates a two-class system: People who can afford an eligible car get to thumb their noses at those who cannot, and flaunt the whole reason for HOV lanes in the first place.

    As for the complaints about the tolls on the HOT lanes, I gather you only pay if you want to use the lane without abiding by the purpose of the lane, which is to encourage carpooling. In places where the traffic has outgrown the capacity of the roadway, and where taxpayers are not willing to pay for adequate road expansion, anybody not willing to carpool has very little grounds for complaint about the toll. You have two choices for not paying the toll: Use the regular lanes, or carpool. Nobody is forced to pay the toll.

    Just be glad I'm not in charge, because I'd impose a toll on everyone not carpooling, and not allow any exceptions in the carpool lane. If you are not carpooling, you'd pay a toll and be stuck with all the other non-carpoolers.
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    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Around here, that is second priority. First priority is to allow mass transit (buses have much higher occupancy than any carpools) to keep useful schedules, so it can also contribute to congestion reduction.

    All others are simply alternate uses of underused assets, and must be regulated so they don't interfere with 1 and 2. Here, most of our HOV sections are heavily used without any alternate programs.
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    usdmattiphone Member

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    And then in that world, you'd also make sure to ONLY allow people in the carpool lane that have more than 1 person that is at least of driving age, who possess a valid drivers license. No carpool lane with people who simply have a child with them.

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