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Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by cyclopathic, Dec 30, 2011.
Toyota Launches 83 MPG Prius C In Japan, Takes 60,000 Pre-Orders
10% more fuel efficient than the standard Prius is about what I was expecting and anything above 55mpg is a bonus IMO. Now let's see how many of these Toyota can make.
With all the US government money GM got, OUR MONEY OF COURSE, why couldn't GM in the U.S. make a 50 plus mpg car that is under $20,000.00 so the average family could afford one?
Not many families can afford a 43,000 dollar Volt.
The answer is that US car compaines are scratching there heads when it comes to making a 50 mpg vehicle. In fact, they were scratching their heads during the 70's when the price of gas doubled and Toyota and Honda were kings in the auto world.
Just look at the cars that Ford and GM make in Europe several models get great mpg over 50 mpg, mostly diesel models, but YOU CAN NOT BUY ONE IN THE US.
well with respect to diesels we should thank GW, Chaney&Co. If you look at their dismal environmental record, they govern with little environmental concern, except for passing tier 2 bin 5. You get an idea why when you put together killing 80MPG program and passing draconian tier 2 bin 5 which ensured cost of cleaning diesel will make them costlier then hybrids.
Honda had plans of bringing diesel Accord to US (rated at 93MPG in euro cycle), putting V6 diesels in Odyssey/Pilot/Tundra/etc, and they all got axed b/c of T2B5.
My friend wants to buy a C as her first car. She was about to buy a Honda Fit when she heard about the C.
10% better is not what i hoped for and i expected better.
but we well see in the hands of hypermilers and the at delivery what the real mpg wil be
GM wanted to leapfrog the Prius and the Volt turned out to cost about twice as much.
Not only 50mpg is very hard to achieve in real world (remember European Fuel Measurement Standards are much softer than EPA)...
The energy content per gallon is 11% higher than gas...
Watch out for maintenance in a diesel, as well as a more rough ride (vibration, noise, turbo lag)...more noticeable in urban ways.
IMHPOV, there aren't many reasons to buy one in US...
I was just reading up on 520d and E200cdi, entry level diesels much lauded for very low official fuel consumption...and in AMS (german AutoMotorundSport), they averaged 50-55% worse than official figures, during normal driving. They actually ended up getting very similar MPG to RX450h... and guess that, whats probably where EPA would rate them too
imagine if Prius drivers were averaging 22-25mpg in normal driving situations...
I like diesel engines because diesel fuel is less likely to be contaminated with ethanol than gasoline is. Also, diesel engines can run on other oils, such as kerosine, jet fuel, biodiesel, and used cooking oils. This gives you much better flexibility in a situation where shortages of fuel are common. Finally, diesel is more suitable for natural gas conversion, and natural gas is cheaper and more available than liquid fuels.
Prius c in hot demand. Price, mpg, size and a proven design = winner. Everything Gm wishes the Volt was.
Actual diesel engines have less ability to burn other low quality oils/fuels, mainly due to injector's techonology.
And converting to natural gas is done with a "downgrade" closer to Otto compression values, and injection system is switched to spark plugs + fuel intake pre-mix. It is done in many buses, not in cars.
That's generally true. However, diesel-cycle engines have been successfully run on natural gas with a small "pilot" injection of diesel fuel (see, e.g., Westport HD :: Technology).
Yes, I keep forgetting those applications.
However, it does not mean "better" flexibility as stated by the OP, since is not total conversion.
I can't help but ask. Have you ever driven a modern diesel car?
Diesel don't necessarily require more maintenance. You can just get one that isn't made in Germany. The maintanence intervals and prices are about equal for our gas car, prius and diesel.
A diesel engine is rough when cold and during idle, but the low RPM makes it more refined than a comparable gas/hybrid engine at speed.
The improved torque of a diesel makes it possible to accelerate without using high revs, start without pressing the accelerator and remain calm at highway speed where downshifting isn't necessary as often when overtaking.
There is a reason why Europeans embrace diesels!
why? subsidies on diesel fuel?
In US diesel is ~20% more expensive then gasoline. US emissions are much tighter, so the cost of cleaning diesel exhaust eats any savings diesels would have over hybrids: Jetta TDI costs more then Prius.
Diesels are expensive, have no real uptake rate in consumer vehicles in the US, and are more or less irrelevant in the North American market until you get into trucks.
60 MPG would have been awesome on the c, but 55 is not bad. Ultimately, it's a less expensive Prius than the regular, that gets better mileage. It is smaller, but it's going to sell like candy to a fat kid, I have no doubt.
My lifetime mpg on the 2010 Prius II with over 30 K mi , is 56 as measured at the pump. That means a "c" would give me 61 mpg (based on what I get over EPA) which is the same as my prior 2000 Insight 5 spd got over its 262,000 miles Wow !!
Oh Yeah, no thanks!
At $3.23 for regular, $3.83 for diesel in my neighborhood, it costs $1.62 to drive a prius for 25 miles and $2.82 to drive a Jetta TDI 25 miles. One start in EV mode and the other rough cold start.
A 4.9 gallon urea tank in 2012 Passat!
Urea is not cheap!
Adding Urea To Clean Diesel Cars: Can I Just Pee In The Tank?