Scooters and motorcycles can pollute 90 times as much as SUVs

Not surprising. I'd known about the lax standards/controls on motorcycles and other items w/small engines for a long time.

Mythbusters also recently did some tests of this and confirmed that other than greenhouse gases (which is directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned), motorcycles were far more polluting than cars. They tested cars and motorcycles with one each from these three eras: 80s, 90s and 2000s.

The 80s car was an Olds Cutlass Ciera, the 90s car was a Honda Accord and the 00s car was some Ford (Taurus?). Too bad they didn't throw an AT-PZEV rated car like the 2nd or 3rd gen Prius, esp. considering I've seen them Mythbusters do/star in a Prius ad before.

 

Because in a lot of peoples mind its the fuel use that shows whether something is 'green' or not.

A few years ago pretty much every hippie over here drove a Citroen 2CV Citroën 2CV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as they considered them economical and green. Trouble was, the 2 stroke 600cc engine pumped out all sorts of crud, but because it was quite economical they were happy. (maybe its this history of hypocritical behaviour which is why people take climate change with contempt?).

I don't suggest everyone drives a Dodge Durango but I wouldn't suggest they rode a moped either. Something between the two would be ideal. Perhaps a Prius?

 

Another big source of urban pollution is lawn care equipment. Lawn mowers and leaf blowers can put out surprising amounts of particulates and greenhouse gases.

 

Some municipalities in California have outlawed 2-stroke engine powered tools. So gas powered leaf blowers, lawn mowers, chainsaws, and that sort of thing cannot be used. Someone gets it, but it hasn't spread yet...

 

One test, on one motorcycle, does not a trend make.

 

Mythbusters tested three motorcycles, in the same three eras as the three cars.

 

Most two-wheelers lack catalytic converters. Even with a 4-stroke engine uptream, the output gases are pretty grim.

In China, urban scooters are mostly electric (read 70% coal 30% hydro), while out in the country 'gassers' prevail because of their longer range. Other Asian countries are in process of making this transition. One consequence is a large recycling industry for lead acid batteries, which is more or less well managed, depending on where you look.

But back in the US and Euro, also on the list of 'guilty pleasures' is general aviation. Catalytic converters there seem a distant goal, especially in light of the leaded avgas.

 

funny how they used bike under 286cc, which is not covered by EPA regulations, neither tier 1 2006, nor tier 2 2008.

 

duplicate

 

Doesn't matter in my book. If the bike is legal to be sold and yet causes more pollution than a car, either the laws need to be tightened up or people should be made aware. Sure they're small in numbers but then again 90 times more pollution is an issue.

Put it another way, you all refer to the lax diesel emission control here in Europe (as do I) and my Prius emits 30 times less NOx than a similar sized new diesel car. The same applies in the US where the Prius is cleaner than many other similar cars. So it's OK to complain about the diesel but not ok to complain about a small motorcycle? Why?

You're not all riders by any chance?

 

SSDD.
Mythbusters is a pretty groovy TV show, but sometimes they color outside the lines a little bit.
Is a motorcycle as "green" as a Prius?
Hell no.
Neither of my 2 cycles get the fuel efficiency as my G3, although the Kawi (Vulcan 900) gets pretty close.
Do they pollute 90x more than an SUV? On balance, I'd also say hell no. My 2 cycles are equipped with catalytic converters, and other emissions plumbing not found on mopeds and scooters. To suggest that a Hummer H3 is 90x 'greener' than these 2, might also be coloring outside the lines a little bit, and it speaks to a tendency in the "Green" community to play fast and loose with numbers sometimes.
Motorcycles are for the most part recreational vehicles, similar to boats, R/V's, and other toys. They have the advantage of being able to be pressed into duty as a transportation appliance, but that's not really why 90-percent of M/C riders put their knees in the breeze.
I'll put the "green" numbers for the motorcycle community up against those for other recreational vehicles with pride. However (comma) I really have no axe to grind against my brothers and sisters who get their hulls wet, slip the surly bonds in private planes, or haul 10,000 pounds of their crap around in trailers.
They're getting "greener" in those communities too.

 

it is funny how they picked up a 250cc DS bike (once again less then 286cc!), with no emission control, oxygen sensor or catalytic converter

BTW grumpy sleep well the Euro-5 bike standard is even tougher then EPA. 2005 up bikes have to comply the same laws as gasoline cars

 

Ah that explains why I see funny attachments to scooter exhausts - it must be the catalyst. I will admit gone are the days of clouds of blue smoke pouring out the back of a moped. Improvement in oil and catalysts.

Obviously Euro emission laws are going the right way - and the latest diesels do appear cleaner too. A colleague of my has the new Passat tdi and the inside of the tailpipes are clean - they look like new and that's with heavy taxi use! Still don't like diesels though

 

They claimed they picked a popular car and a popular motorcycle from each decade. How they determined that, is really anyone's guess. I do find they are usually pretty thorough when they test things, as far as I can tell.

If you want, you can always request that they test larger engined bikes against those sedans. Sometimes they'll go back and re-visit items.

*I assumed you were referring to the mythbusters episode* If not, well, the above applies to others that have commented on that part of it

 

^^^ Grampy; not sure about Euro5 specifics but from I remember looking it up 5 years ago the big difference btw Euro5 and EPA was that EPA did not cover anything under 286cc and for real bikes it was less strict allowing at least ~x2 more emissions.

Also a couple mfg Bocsh and Fische(?) develop DFI system for 2-strokes.. Aprilia was using it on small scooters. No oil burning.

 

If more new motorcycles are getting fitted with catalytics, then I'll withdraw any objections. Currently I only know what I see on the roads here in a foreign land.

One way to get the per-person emissions down is to pack them on. Most people I ever saw in Taiwan was 5 (no photo, sorry). Around here, 3 is common and 4 not rare.

 

tochatihu, the EPA m/c regulations tier 1 (2006) pretty much required all US bikes to be fitted with open loop EFI and catalytic converter (exception 2-3 models under 286cc); after tier 2 (2008) not that many bikes left w/o oxygen/lambda sensor close loop system. Euro5 bikes in 2006 had to be fitted with oxygen sensor from kit-go.

Not sure what is going on in 3rd world countries; there are alot more small bikes in India, China, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, etc etc.. they probably not covered by any regulations. As was pointed out bikes produce much less CO2, but they do produce alot more NOx, CO and HC if not cleaned up

 

That is a ymmv. Lots of bikes have worse fuel economy than a Prius.

 

Yep. Even here in California where the supposed "CARB Nazi's" have taken over the state by imposing draconian emissions controls, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what types of vehicles pollute the most. Just go drive down a busy street behind various vehicles with your windows down and breathe deeply.

In my experience, here are the types of vehicles most often that stink (not necessarily in any order):

1. Diesel delivery trucks
2. Big diesel freight trucks
3. Diesel pickup trucks (F-250/350 and the like)
4. Motorcycles and scooters
5. Older gas cars
6. Vehicles not warmed up
7. Yard maintenance equipment (lawn mowers, leaf blowers)

If we could get the emissions of all those vehicles to the same as your typical car when warmed up - I'd be very happy. It'd be nice to be able to drive with your windows down without having to breathe all sorts of nasty stuff.