1. Offline

    Rokeby Member

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    Location:
    Ballamer, Merlin
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    Just test drove a 2011 LEAF at Bob Bell Nissan just off I695 at the
    Eastern Ave exit.

    I drive a GenII Prius w/ScanGuage, so am no stranger to lots of data
    on display, still found the amount and style of data on display
    daunting… I guess you get acclimated in time.

    Nice car. Easy to see why it has engendered the excitement it has.
    Got to drive for about 20 min; surface roads and beltway, up to 55
    MPH. Ride was nice, tight… but then, aren't all new cars?
    Quiet, much more so than the Prius -- has 65K miles, no noticeable
    squeaks or rattles. Very little motor whine on acceleration, less regen
    whine than Prius.

    FWIW, there was only this one test car on the lot. Salesman pleasant,
    not at all pushy, no attempt to bait and switch. Very familiar with
    control/display layout, but pretty much clueless of operating details
    idiosyncrasies… he said, "This is the car of the future, I really like it, but
    I wouldn't drive one… it doesn't make enough noise." !!?? He said he
    had seen a LEAF in the wild, but was evasive about how many he/they
    had sold.

    Found seats comfortable. Interesting raised rear seating, due battery
    beneath I guess. Clear view forward, a backseat driver's dream.
    Sufficient, but not as much rear leg room as Prius.
    Smallish, vertically oriented rear storage area. Was thinking where all
    the luggage would go on our next trip to Maine… well, duh, that's not
    what it will be used for.

    There was a double headed charger in front of the showroom. I asked
    if it was Level 2 or 3. Was told 3, but when I withdrew the jack, it was
    a 2. Apparently other than charging the single test car, they don't
    anticipate much/any public use as it is behind two rows of cars parked
    head in. The test car was next to the charger, and 2 cars had to be
    moved to get it out.

    FWIW, on the 20 min drive home, each time the Prius' -- our much
    coddled and beloved Amapola -- ICE kicked in, I was mildly irritated…
    What's up with that?

    Don't need to buy a LEAF yet, or perhaps ever… just wanting to
    know/experiece more. Am waiting for an iMiEV, i, to compare to.
    Local Mitsu dealer says mid-February.

    Hold on, I know the two EVs are miles apart as to sophistication, etc,
    etc. Either car would meet our worst case daily commuting/weekend
    errand range needs. I need to know if I can accept the step down to
    the i, to get a lower initial cost EV... it'll be an around town car, not a
    hiway cruiser.

    [Note: cross posted at mynissanleaf.com]
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    :rockon: I began experiencing the same thing as soon as I started driving the Zap Xebra, some 4 1/2 years ago! Any time I had to drive the Prius I was annoyed that it has a gas engine. Though the Prius is more comfortable than the hokey little Xebra, it just felt better to be driving electric. There's real sense of inner peace when you're driving electric. At least for me.
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    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Oh, go on. I'll even let you use our outdoor Level 1 charger for free. ;)
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    Rokeby Member

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    Well, I finally "get" what so special about all-electric drive beyond the
    possible fuel cost savings. In retrospect, it seemed like a magic carpet
    ride. :rolleyes:

    [IMG]

    This is dangerous. Once I drive the iMiEV, I may be driven to buy one
    of these. :eek:

    It seemed like the LEAF was better insulated from outside the
    passenger compartment noise. I don't pretend to be wholly objective
    on this, I was ooh-ing and aah-ing over the displays and trying to find
    and keep the equivalent of the "no arrows glide."

    On a more prudent/rational note, with our Prius we cut our gas
    use/expense by 60%. I never thought we could do the same again. I
    haven't worked the numbers all that hard yet, but with an EV, it may
    be possible to do so again…

    Simply amazing

    How close are you to the LA, Lewiston-Auburn area are you? ;)

    As I understand it, if you Level 1 charge you can't use the cabin
    preheat feature when charging just before use...

    or is it it's just so darn slow as to be useless? :confused:

    How very true. :rockon:

    Not quite the feeling, but I like it anyway; Magic Carpet Ride
    (short version) Steppenwolf. (You can easily substitute
    L-E-A-F test drive for magic carpet drive too. :D )

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    AussieOwner Active Member

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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I will be interested in any comparison between the Leaf and the MiEV. Here in Sydney, we have a number of MiEV running around the city, but Nissan has not yet released the Leaf. Only tonight, I had a MiEV in the next lane, both of us doing 80 kph (50 mph). My only concern with the MiEV is how small it is. When we we next to it, it appeared that the MiEV was only about 2/3 the size of the Prius. Even my daughter commented on how small it was in comparison to our car.

    Also interested in price comparison. The MiEV sells in Australia for $48,800 plus on-road costs (registration and insurance and a "dealer fee") while my new gen III Prius was $36,000 plus on-road costs. Quite a premium for a much smaller car.

    Mitsubishi's web site states that the MiEV has a range of approx 150kms (less than 100 miles).
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    gasmiser1 EV Wantabee

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    Model:
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    -----------------------

    +1

    Gasoline engine is irritating now since we bought our LEAF.
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Level 1 charging will probably give you about 5 miles of range for each hour of charging.

    A typical hair dryer on high probably draws about 1,400 watts. That would leave you about 400 watts for charging, or just over one mile of range for each hour of charging.

    OTOH, it would be possible to charge the pack first, then put some heat in the car. If the car is in a garage, that much heat would make a noticeable difference. Parked out of doors on a windy day in January in N.D. it would not.

    But people would complain that they could not charge the pack and warm the car at the same time because Americans refuse to learn math because they think it's useless; so they cannot understand why an 1,800 watt L1 circuit cannot charge the car and warm it at the same time. So rather than get complaints, the car company just says no pre-heating.

    Before I got the big after-market heater installed in the Xebra I sometimes hung the hair dryer in the window for a while before going out on a very cold day.

    Yep. Right now batteries are expensive. But Mitsubishi is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they charge more for the iMiev than Nissan charges for the bigger and longer-range Leaf. The one advantage of smaller is if you live where it's hard to find a parking space. And if properly designed, smaller can be more efficient.

    A year ago the iMiev would have been a big step up for me, from the Xebra.

    To be honest, right now the market for electric cars is people who are concerned about what burning gas is doing to the economy and the environment, and people who expect the price of gas to rise significantly in the near future. If gas were to become unavailable or unaffordable, or we had a return of long gas lines, there would be a run on electric cars and the people who had already bought them would be in the catbird seat.
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    Roadburner440 Member

    Member Since:
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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    It is weird how you become annoyed by gas engines after driving an EV or PHEV.. With the inlaws in town we wound up using our Prius to show them around Norfolk, and burning gas almost seems like failure. The Prius certaintly still shines though. There was a 6.75mi back up going in to the Hampton Tunnel, and the Prius handled it like a champ.

    As far as pre-heating the car goes while charging it is certaintly a learning process. I agree most people are to ignorant to want to learn/plan/deal with EV's in general. I find the best thing to do is delay my charge until I am about to leave. Since I leave at 5:30am I set the car to finish charging at 5:15. The pack is still warm from charging, and so the pre-heat has more of an effect. While it does not warm the cabin very well my battery range increases usually from an estimated 37 to 42mi.

    Obviously we all have gotten here for various reasons. For me I just got tired of shelling money out at the gas pump. The freedom from really worrying about "gas prices went down a penny let me rush to fill my car!!" is completely gone now, and I do not miss it. In fact anymore I watch gas prices just merely out of curiosity since it will effect everything else I/we buy (food most importantly, and other products). I was reading an article yesterday where 3 east coast refineries are possibly getting shut down in the next few months, so higher gas prices I think are almost a given: Three oil refineries on US East Coast face possible shutdown . You guys just have to do what is right for you. I think dollar for dollar the Prius makes more sense than a PHEV/EV at the moment. For our Prius to become absurd gas would need to be almost $20 a gallon for it to equal our old car/truck fill ups. So way I see it you get an EV at least buy it because you love to drive it. I love driving the Volt every chance I get. People kept asking me if I felt stupid when gas went under $3. It amazes me how every time gas goes down I get those type of questions. I did manage to convince someone at my work to get a used Gen 3 Prius (for a steal too!). So at least someone got the hint. Just a matter of seeing how high they will go now.
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I love telling people that I pay two cents per mile for the electricity to drive my EV. (Formerly the Xebra, now the Tesla.) Gas would have to go down well below a dollar before they'd be paying so little. Then I point out the terrorism tax on gasoline, and the balance of trade disaster that petroleum contributes mightily to.

    Even though almost nobody is willing to accept the limitations of an EV, they are universally envious. Nobody likes sending money overseas for gas. The reaction is always "I wish I could make do with a car like that." Never "Why would you want to drive that?"
  10. Offline

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Member Since:
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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    My 2011 Nissan Leaf stats YTD delivery jan 18th, 2011; 11,615.6 miles, 3132 Kw, $322.28

    Degradation of excitement over the Leaf since delivery 11 months ago; about 4%. when i got it, it was shiny and new. now it has road grime all over it!

    note; date that Prius exceeded $322.28 in gas costs in 2011; April 16th, 2011. miles driven; 3804.2

    Number of times stranded in Leaf; ZERO

    Current Number of FREE CHARGING Locations for Leaf within 40 miles of my home; 82.

    Number of Stations offering Free gas for my Prius within 4,000 miles of my home; ZERO

    advantages?? i haven't decided. what do you think?
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    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Dave, that's great! I knew it would be a wonderful car. Please note, however, that your figure of 3132 kW should be kWh.

    Yes, it DOES matter! Kilowatts and kilowatt-hours are VERY different things. A kilowatt is a measure of the rate of energy flow. Motors and chargers have ratings in kilowatts. A kilowatt-hour is a measure of a specific quantity of energy. You buy electricity in kilowatt-hours. Your car (in your case) used 3132 kilowatt-hours of energy in about 11 1/2 months.

    Lots of people on Prius Chat are misusing these terms and as a result are saying things that make no sense, and while it may often be possible to figure out what's intended from the context, using the wrong units can lead to confusion. Saying kW when you mean kWh is like saying my grandma was from Romania when she was really from Hungary. Anyone who knew my grandma will know what I meant, but that's no excuse for giving her the wrong nationality.
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    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    I'm in Central Maine, about 50 miles from Lewiston (measured to Fuel on Lisbon St).

    Well, running at the limits of your socket peak would be 120Wx15A = 1.8kW. Not surprising.

    I think realistically you get 1kW. (Dave would know).

    Having experienced the limited carpet ride of the Prius I'd love to have a BEV or longer-range PHEV for my 41.4 miles round trip commute or my wife's 35 mile round trip (opposite directions, unfortunately) but I'd definitely need Level 2. The iMiEV wouldn't cut it for my use, but the LEAF would.

    At some point I'll have to get a test drive in the LEAF just to try it and see if it's good enough to convince my wife for the future. ;) The LEAF's coming to Maine with the full US roll-out.
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    hill High Fiber Member

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    BAAHHH - you're biased !!

    ;)

    .

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