1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

"Testing the performance effects of upsizing wheels and tires"

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by LTZR1, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. LTZR1

    LTZR1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    134
    30
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    We ran across an interesting article run in a past Car and Driver magazine. While the testing was not done with a Prius, or with LRR tires, it nevertheless provides meaningful information regarding the
    effects of tire amd wheel upsizing. The test was performed by the Car and Driver Tech Dept.

    "The aesthtic appeal of larger wheels and tires is undeniable. but what about the alleged performance benefits? In general, larger wheels and tires are heavier, and additional weight hinders performance. To examine the effects of installing larger wheels and tires, also known as "plus-sizing," we tested five wheel and tire combinations ranging from 15 to 19 inches on a 2010 Volkswagen Golf and got a good
    sense of what is gained and lost in the process."

    "The plus-size concept works like this: As the wheel gets larger, the size of the tire's sidewall must shrink to maintain the overall tire diameter. Keeping the overall tire diameter righly the same is crucial to keeping the gearing the same and the speedometer accurate, as well as for making sure the wheels and tires fit within the fenders. But larger wheels and tires are often available only in enlarged
    widths as well."

    The test employed nearly identical Goodyear Eagle GT ultra-high performance all season tires inflated to mfr recommended pressures in all five sizes. " The tires were nearly the same because the 15, 16. and 17 inchers have a lower speed rating ( V , or a top speed up to 149 mph, than the 18 and 19 inch tires W-rating ( up to 168 mph. ) That was as close as we could get to testing the same tire in every size. We used the stock steel wheels for the 15 inch test and went to the aftermarket for the larger wheels. The aftermarket wheel we chose was a cast aluminum ASA GT1, which is available in 16-19 inch sizes on the Golf. It's obvious from the test that as the wheels and tires grow in size, they also grow in weight. Here's how the test shook out:"

    Wheel size 19x8.5 18x8.0 17x8.0 16x7.5 15x6.0
    Tire size 235/35R-19 225/40R-18 225/45R-17 205/55R-16 195/65R-15
    $/wheel 199 166 145 130 N/A
    $/wheel 160 125 118 97 69
    C/D Test Results
    0-60 7.9 sec 7.9 sec 7.8 sec 7.7 sec 7.6 sec
    0-100 23.4 sec 23.3 sec 22.7 sec 22.6 sec 22.3 sec
    Standing 1/4 mile 16.1@86 16.1@86 16.0@87 16.0@87 15.9@888
    ( sec @88)
    Braking 60-0 126 ft 126 ft 128 ft 133 ft 130 ft
    Roadholding
    300 ft dia skidpad 0.88g 0.89g 0.85g 0.85g 0.83g
    Soundlevel
    70 mph cruise 71dBA 70dBA 70dBA 70dBA 70dBA
    Fuel Economy
    C/D Loop (mpg) 21.1 21.9 22.8 22.9 23.3
    Speedometer Error -3 -1 -1 none -1
    Weight
    (Wheel+tire) lbs 54 51 48 46 40

    "What's immediately apparent from the results is that as the wheel and tire packages get larger and heavier, acceleration and fuel economy suffer, Neither is a huge surprise, but we measured a 10%
    drop in fuel economy and 4% degredation in the 0-60 mph acceleration from the 15's to the 19's, which is worth considering should you be thinking about "going big."

    "We asked the folks at Goodyear about why the 19 inch set-up showed less grip on the skid pad
    than the 18's and they postulated that the added width that comes with the tire may have given the
    tire more grip, which would increase body roll and could therefore decrease the load on the
    inside tire enough to lose 0.01 on the skidpad."

    "The heavy, 19 inch suffered with the most impact harshness and taxed the suspension the most.
    In contrast, the smallest wheel and tire combination showed a propensity for more understeer on the skid pad, but provided a much more controlled and supple ride. And although it didn't register on
    the dBA-meter, the 15 and 16 inch arrangement had a more pleasant sound quality than the larger
    wheels and tires.

    "Larger wheels and tires may look the coolest, but the smaller set-ups offer a better compromise of grip, acceleration, fuel economy, price, and ride ride quality. Unless you believe it's better to look good, rather than feel good, take our advice and stay away from extremely low-profile sidewalls
    and massively heavy wheels."

    ( A table was created for the C/D results, but the "system" compressed them tightly....sorry about that )
     
    SoCalBPrius likes this.
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for posting this by itself. I believe the first time it was posted it was buried inside of another thread. :)

    As we discussed in that other thread, the mpg difference between 15" tires and 17" tires is evident in the above test but it is exacerbated when using true LRR tires vs. non- LRR or pseudo LRR tires in a larger size and on a car with much higher mpg numbers. 10% at 50mpg looks a lot larger than it does at 23mpg.
     
  3. SoCalBPrius

    SoCalBPrius Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    563
    118
    10
    Location:
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Good info. as most have been talked about or confirmed one way or another. Personally, I think the speed category(0-60, 1/4 mile, etc.) is of less importance for our prius since it wasn't meant to be fast. Interesting too that as u go too big, it has a negative effect on the skidpad:eek:.
     
  4. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    LTZ, you can preserve table formatting by inserting it between UBB code callouts.

    {code}
    your formatted table goes here
    {/code}


    Code:
    1            2                3        7
    
    Except use [] instead of {} like I did in my example.

    Edit: I just tried it on your table and it doesn't work very well with the board software.
     
    F8L likes this.
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I agree but would add that lighter narrower wheels/tires also make the Prius feel more nimble if equipped with decent handling tires. Granted the car cannot corner nearly as fast but acceleration is improved and the steering feels lighter. So may trade offs between wheel and tire choice. lol
     
    SoCalBPrius likes this.
  6. LTZR1

    LTZR1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    134
    30
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Thanks ! We tried that after we "previewed" the thread......and gave up after several attempts. You're right...
    it doesn't work very well with the software !
     
  7. NineScorpions

    NineScorpions Economy, Meet Style!!

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    375
    64
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    As I understand it...the higher skid pad number, the better. Meaning you can hold a higher lateral G befoe losing grip. The larger setups excelled in braking and handling...which they ignore in their final statements. It says only if you want good looks. :rolleyes: Agreed that 0-60 times are not important in a Pri.

    As we all knew already...smaller sets are cheaper and better on mpg...no shocker there.

    Thanks for posting!
     
  8. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The difference braking distance was approx. 3' so not a huge difference although this could vary by manufacturer and model.
     
  9. LTZR1

    LTZR1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    134
    30
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Yes, you're correct that the higher skid pad number the better. However, in our use we don't spend any time at all on a skid pad with the Prius or teasing the limits of higher lateral G's before losing grip.....(.except when tracking the ZR1, and thats a different situation altogether. ) The larger set ups as reported provided 0.06 more lateral G's on the skid pad and Car and Driver did recognize that, but in everyday street and traffic driving, it's doubtful the average Prius
    driver would get anywhere close to those limits. And as FBL has already stated, the very few feet braking difference
    doesn't make for a very substantial difference.

    As Car and Driver stated in the begining of the article, larger wheels and tires can and do provide more aesthetic appeal. And they can contribute to somewhat improved braking and handling, but considering the design purpose
    of the Prius, which is to provide comfortable, reliable, highly economical transportation, we would also agree with the
    findings of the Car and Driver test.

    Thaat being said, our daughter HATED the appearance of the 15 inch wheel and hubcaps, and within 2000 miles
    took a trip to Tire Rack Headquarters in South Bend, Indiana and replaced the "hideous" looking wheels and hub caps
    with a set of Sport Edition A7 15 inch wheels and remounted the Bridgestone Ecopia EP 20's on them. ( All attemps
    to persuade her towards a set of 16" set of wheels and tires failed......very strong willed gal. )

    The handling of the Prius with the 15" wheels is more than adequate ( especially after SHE installed the TRD rear sway bar ) and she consistently achieves 52-56 calculated mpg's. While she occasionally drives in a "spirited" manner, no track time or testing the lateral g limits are planned. She shares track time with me in the ZR1 for that ! ( And posts quite respectable lap times. )
     
  10. NineScorpions

    NineScorpions Economy, Meet Style!!

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    375
    64
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    You think? No one is...except Car and Driver and folks in the racing industry. And no one is flooring the Pri either to see the 0-100 times on their day to day commute. It is quite obvious to say that and also obvious to say that 15" wheels on the Pri are adequate or Toyota would not designed it that way to start with.

    I was only pointing out facts from the study.
     
  11. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    There was recent article in Car and Driver where they tried different performance level near stock size tires on a Leaf. IIRC, they improved skid pad performance from 0.8g to 1.0g. The 1g was with track tires that you wouldn't want to run on the highway, I think they got up to around 0.9g with high performance street tires. Naturally the 0.9g tires weren't LRR

    Increasing from 0.8 to 0.9 doesn't sound like much but the responsiveness of the tires can make car feel like a different car.

    Another reason wider tire sometimes don't help on non-performance cars is that economy car suspension usually doesn't do a very good job of keeping the tire perpendicular to the pavement in hard cornering so tires with short stiff sidewalls aren't able to keep their tread flat on the road.