1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

The Toyota Mirai (FCV) Thread

Discussion in 'Fuel Cell Vehicles' started by usbseawolf2000, Dec 9, 2014.

Page 2 of 22
  1. engerysaver

    engerysaver Real Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    426
    130
    0
    Location:
    Tyler, Texas ; USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    When something NEW comes out .... It is allways high in price.
    In time the price will come down; when demand goes up.:)
     
    #21 engerysaver, Jan 14, 2015
    MarkPressey likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,960
    49,073
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i don't even buy green banana's.:coffee:
     
    #22 bisco, Jan 14, 2015
    austingreen likes this.
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,849
    16,081
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    *Disclaimer: All photos are property of Toyota Motor Corporation 15miraipreciousgrey.jpg Precious Silver Metallic (extra cost option) (U.S. name: Elemental Silver)

    15miraiwhitepearlcrystalshine.jpg
    White Pearl Crystal Shine (extra cost option) (U.S. name: Crystal White)
    15miraipreciousblack.jpg
    Precious Black Pearl (extra cost option) (U.S. name: Celestial Black)
    15miraipureblue.jpg
    Pure Blue Metallic (Unavailable in the U.S.)
    15miraired.jpg
    Dark Red Mica Metallic (Unavailable in the U.S.)
    15miraidarkblue.jpg
    Dark Blue Mica (U.S. name: Nautical Blue Metallic)
    15miraicomponents.jpg 15miraicomponents2.jpg 15miraitank.png 15miraiunderbody.jpg 15miraidoorpanel.jpg 15miraidash.jpg 15miraiintwarmwhite.jpg

    Warm White SofTex Interior (Standard)

    15miraiintbluewhite.jpg
    Blue-White SofTex Interior (No cost option)

    15miraiintblueblack.jpg

    Blue-Black SofTex Interior (No cost option)

    15miraipoweroutletAC2.jpg

    Rear Seat Power Outlets

    [​IMG]

    Trunk-mounted power outlet with grounding connection

    [​IMG]

    V2H DC Outlet (CHAdeMO Terminal). If I'm reading the translation correctly, the cable is sold separately. See dealer for details.


    15miraipoweroutlet2.jpg

    V2H DC Outlet (CHAdeMO Terminal). If I'm reading the translation correctly, the cable is sold separately. See dealer for details.
     

    Attached Files:

    #23 Tideland Prius, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    dbcassidy, Sergiospl and GrumpyCabbie like this.
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,722
    2,121
    45
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    It does look nice; perhaps what the gen4 Prius should have been?

    I'm not out to deliberately antagonise you, but wasn't one of the main arguments for the Prius that it was much less complicated than even a traditional car and/or automatic transmission. That Mirai looks complicated to say the least. And do I see two tanks? Are they both for hydrogen?
     
    #24 GrumpyCabbie, Mar 9, 2015
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,849
    16,081
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Japanese Specification MIRAI

    Exterior
    • 17" Alloys on P215/55R17 Tires
    • Full LED headlamps with auto-levelling low beams. (2-lamps low beam, all 4 lamps for high beam)
    • Automatic High Beam
    • LED Taillights & Brake Lights
    • LED Clearance Lights (doubles as DRLs)
    • LED Front/Rear Turn Signals
    • Black (202 Colour code) roof
    • Mirror-Mounted Turn Signal
    • Power Folding & Auto-Folding Heated Exterior Mirrors with Auto-Reverse-Tilt Function
    • Rain-Sensing Wipers
    • Rear Foglight
    • Vehicle Proximity Notification System
    • 4-Door SKS (plus trunk release)
    • Clearance and Backup Sensors
    • Body-Coloured Mudguards
    • Acoustic Windshield, Front Door Glass and Rear Door Glass
    • Tinted Rear Quarter Window (Rear Quarter Window Privacy Glass)
    • Water-Repellent Front Door Glass
    • Front/Rear "MIRAI" Door Scuff Plates
    • Front and Rear Door-Mounted Courtesy Lights
    • Backup Camera w/ Guidelines
    • Available Windshield Wiper Deicer
    Interior
    • Full SofTex Seating
    • Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel
    • Dual-Stage (Hi/Lo) Heated Front and Rear Seats (seatback and seat bottom. Front seats add heated seat cushion bolsters)
    • Heated steering wheel (sides only)
    • Power Adjustable Tilt/Telescoping Steering Wheel with Auto-Tilt-Away & Return Function
    • 10-Way Power Driver & Front Passenger Seat (Fore/Aft, Recline, Height, Cushion Tilt, Lumbar)
    • 2-Position Driver's Seat Memory System (Steering wheel, mirrors and seat)
    • Easy Access Driver's Seat (i.e. Auto tilt steering wheel and auto-reverse driver's seat when the car is turned off. The reverse happens when the car is turned on)
    • Height and Tilt Adjustable Front Headrests
    • Variable Speed Power Windows with One-Touch Operation (Auto Up/Down) for all 4 windows
    • Speed-Sensitive Poor Door Locks
    • Dual-Zone Automatic Climate Control w/ Electrostatic Climate Control Interface (4.2" TFT Monitor), Humidity Sensor, ECO Heat/Cool & Electric A/C Compressor
    • Dual 4.2" TFT Instrument Panel Screens
    • Front Seatback Pockets
    • Sliding Front Armrest
    • Rear Console Box with Armrest and Storage
    • Rear A/C Vents
    • Rear Power Outlets (12V and 100V AC)
    • DC-Out CHAdeMO Outlet
    • Frameless Auto-Dimming Rearview Mirror
    • ECO and PWR Mode
    • Electronic Shifter with Bs Mode (strong "B" mode??)
    • H2O Release Button
    • Nanoe Air Filtration System
    • Illuminated Entry with Front Footwell Lighting
    • Dual Illuminated Vanity Mirrors
    • Qi Wireless Charging
    Safety
    • Dual Two-Stage SRS Front Airbags
    • Dual Seat-Mounted Side Airbags
    • Dual Side Curtain Airbags
    • Driver's Knee Airbag
    • Front Passenger Seat Cushion Airbag
    • Pre-Collision System & Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
    • Blind Spot Monitor
    • Lane Departure Alert (Active at speeds over 50km/h)
    • Trailing Vehicle Emergency Braking Notification (Flashes hazard lights if the driver brakes hard to alert following vehicles)
    • Traction Control
    • S-VSC
    • ABS w/ EBD
    • Brake Assist
    • SmartStop Technology
    • Hill Start Assist
    • Hydrogen Leak Warning Lamp & Buzzer
    • Tire Repair Kit

    Specifications (PDF, Japanese)
    Equipment list (PDF, Japanese)
    Owner's Manual (PDF, Japanese)
     
    #25 Tideland Prius, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,849
    16,081
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Perhaps. I'm not too keen on the rear design. It reminds me too much of the Bangle Butt.


    Yep. The Mirai and FCV is based on Hybrid Synergy Drive. I do recall Toyota saying when the Gen 2 Prius came out that HSD is flexible and it can support other forms of fuel other than gasoline. Yes there are two "fuel" tanks for onboard hydrogen storage. One is ever so slightly smaller than the other.
     
    #26 Tideland Prius, Mar 9, 2015
  7. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,722
    2,121
    45
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Why? Doesn't that just add complication, cost etc?
     
    #27 GrumpyCabbie, Mar 9, 2015
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,849
    16,081
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    You need the range, right? Plus it might actually be easier and cheaper to produce smaller hydrogen tanks than one large one (I'm thinking about structural integrity of the tank, material cost etc)
     
    #28 Tideland Prius, Mar 9, 2015
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,809
    11,368
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    In order to contain the really high pressure hydrogen gas, the tanks need to be a sphere, cylinder with round ends, or maybe a donut/red blood cell shape. Any other will require extra reinforcement, and thus more weight. These two tanks are 87.5 kg. FCV's end up using multiple tanks because that is easier to package in the car than one big one.

    It looks like nearly everything fits under the floor or the engine bay. Why only 4 seats then? Considered more upper end in Japan to have 2 bucket type seats instead of a bench one? The battery placement would seem to be no usable folding rear seats.

    Toyota can call it HSD, but it is no hybrid. The drive train is all electrical with one motor, and all the electricity comes from hydrogen.
     
    #29 Trollbait, Mar 9, 2015
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    3,938
    1,351
    28
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    #30 Sergiospl, Mar 9, 2015
  11. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    The prototype (FCHV-Adv) had 4 tanks.

    Hopefully next gen can do a single big tank under the hood and everything else under the floor, with room for a spare tire.
    It is a hybrid by SAE engineering definition because it is powered by both the battery (secondary storage) and FC stack (primary).

    What you are thinking is per GM's nonofficial definition.
     
    #31 usbseawolf2000, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Agreed. This will be collector's car for sure.

    It is the "Model H". A beginning of new chapter in automotive history. :)
     
    #32 usbseawolf2000, Mar 10, 2015
  13. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,722
    2,121
    45
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Why?

    The original NHW10 Prius isn't and that was probably just as, if not more ground breaking. An old NHW10 can be had here for £400 or less.
     
    #33 GrumpyCabbie, Mar 10, 2015
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,809
    11,368
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I don't think people will by a car with a huge hydrogen tank in the front.
    No, I was thinking of what the DoE calls them, fuel cell electric vehicle.
    Alternative Fuels Data Center: Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles
    This Mid-Michigan SAE presentation uses the same terminology: http://www.midmichigansae.org/documents/DrGoverPresentationSAEApril20.pdf
    Page 12 of this one, http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f10/vss052_duoba_2011_o.pdf, has fuel cells separate from hybrids within electric vehicles.

    Going with the literal reading of the definition I think you are referring to means GM could call their bi-fuel gasoline and CNG Impala and Silverado hybrids. Doing so would be a disservice to the public because in muddies the waters and spreads confusion. "How a car with just an engine and no motor and battery be hybrid?" they will ask. Toyota does the same when calling their FCV a hybrid, and they are the only ones calling it such.
    Give it another decade, and that 400 pound hybrid(the phrase can take on a different meaning without the currency symbols), will worth more than you put into it.:cool: It won't fetch classic sports or P-envy car money, but it will have some value for historical note beyond just being an old car. The original Insight may climb higher being all aluminum though.
     
    #34 Trollbait, Mar 10, 2015
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Prius was the engine of change.

    Mirai actually changes the future of automobile, not only engine but fuel and infrastructure as well as how we'll use the same fuel to power our home -- hydrogen society.

    With the interior fit and finish like that who wouldn't want to collect one?

    It is an electric-electric hybrid. I am fine with calling either FCHV, FCEV or simply FCV.
     
    #35 usbseawolf2000, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I used google translate to see what's there in the maintenance (Section 7 Pg.315).
    1. Add Washer Fluid
    2. Change Cabin Air Filter
    3. Tire Rotation
    4. Key FOB Coin Battery Change
    5. Light Bulb Change
    That's it. No inverter coolant change. No annual battery checkup like BEVs. No stinky ICE maintnenace like plugin hybrids.
     
    #36 usbseawolf2000, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Mirai shares many components with gas-electric HSD. Motor, Battery and PCU (brain of HSD). Instead of the gas engine, it has FC stack. Since FC stack voltage is different (and DC) where as MG1 generator in Prius produces AC, a new boost converter was developed to use with the existing 650V HSD components.

    Mirai Boost Converter.png
     
    #37 usbseawolf2000, Mar 10, 2015
  18. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    6,722
    2,121
    45
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Well Mr Sea Wolf, I'll give you 10/10 for trying to convince us naysayers.

    I'm still far from convinced. The Mirai is up there with the Fusion Reactor and Space Elevators. Ten years away, manyana manyana....
     
    #38 GrumpyCabbie, Mar 10, 2015
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,809
    11,368
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    And a BEV shares many components with hybrids and FCV's too.
    A theory on why the PPI hasn't done has well is that the populace hasn't been well educated on its operation and advantages. So let's continue putting up walls to their understanding by planting possible confusion calling the Mirai a hybrid when everybody else calls FCV's electric vehicles.

    CNG vehicles that travel public roads require an annual inspection of their fuel tanks. I do not see FCV's getting a pass there.
     
    #39 Trollbait, Mar 10, 2015
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,849
    16,081
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It's marketed as a luxury or upscale vehicle so Toyota envisions that includes individual bucket seats in the rear. They are comfy.

    Well it kinda is. You can have a hydrogen non-hybrid vehicle (BMW experimented with hydrogen ICE a decade back and it has no batteries). Its basic structure is HSD.

    A bi-fuel car isn't a hybrid because it can't be propelled by both sources at the same time. A Series-Hybrid and a Series-Parallel Hybrid can. The Mirai is a series-parallel. The FC can power the electric motor directly or send charge to the battery to be used later. It also has regenerative braking.
     
    #40 Tideland Prius, Mar 10, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 22