Toyota And Other Japanese Manufacturers Join To Build Charging Infrastructure

When the U.S. builds out even HALF the DC/qc infrastructure that Japan has per/sq mile - we'll no longer be talking about the hydrogen (car) hoax:



I so very much am looking forward to that day.
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So why is the Japanese government still pushing for hydrogen fuel cell cars?

 

I'm surprised one state in the U.S. hasn't taken this on... like CA.

 

lol Hill, You do realize that METI, Toyota, and Honda are all participants in this, and are the leading proponents along with CARB and Hyundai of hydrogen. Building a better charging network won't stop these entities from pushing hydrogen, but if we end the 26 credits for a fuel cell, Hyundai would probably stop pushing. I didn't realize it was so many, but hyundai says their hydrogen push is purely for compliance, as CARB seems to want fcv more than anything else.

The big questions on fuel cells and hyrdogen is cost, as cost seems to be an issue with BEVs. AFAIK METI and Toyota and Honda are claiming they can get the cost down to 3 M yen, about $30,000. If they can do that, fcv can compete, but we have heard these promises before.

On charging in the US, the key is more range. BMW and Nissan have talked about 300km range, which is probably NEDC, but say they were 150 mile EPA range, then L3 chargers come more into play. Nissan may before 2018 indeed have a car that joins tesla in having that range, and GM, bmw, and porsche are also working on it. Then its up to the L3 charger standard. Tesla does indeed want to open up its superchargers to these companies, as long as they help them pay for them.
Tesla To Make Supercharger Network Available To All Automakers
Tesla might even open up the standard, and not enforce patents, if that is what it takes to get a nationwide network working.

We do have some studies on EVs for the Japanese market both from 2012, so data isn't completely up to date. The first is world wide
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/us_auto_DTTGlobalAutoSurvey_ElectricVehicles_100411.pdf

Japan is not a good market for initial adopters here. Only 4% were potential first movers for bevs in japan, versus 12% in the US, and 50% in china. That does not bode well for adoption of fcv in Japan, as cost is the number 1 problem with purchasing an EV. The latest translation from a Deloitte japan survey.
EV購入意向は前年比2.9ポイントダウン…デロイト・トーマツ調べ | レスポンス

So here we have it in Japan, 22% consider phevs, 15% BEVs but only 9% would consider a fuel cell vehicle. At 8 million yen, if cost is the big barrier for BEV in japan, it must even be higher for fcv. Reading the rest of the older survey, recharging infrastructure was only a problem with 9% of responants for bev. Cost and range were much bigger factors. If battery prices go down, and people see more bevs on the streets, then perhaps they will be more popular. Charging at home was the number 2 bennefit of a plug in. It seemed from the survey that phev is a better choice for the japanese market. The other glaring thing was people that wanted plug-ins in japan wanted minivans first, then mid sized sedans like the camry and accord, then small sedans. Hatchbacks like the leaf did not make the top three desired japanese plug in. For the world overwelmingly, midsized sedan (not hatchback) was the most desired vehicle. That bodes well for tesla blue star sales if they can get the price bellow $40K.

 

I might be able to take a guess. Because (having very few natural energy sources) importing natural gas to Japan is the least expensive fuel to import based on present day resource availability ?
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double post

 

Because they are usually broke giving money away. Even Gov. Brown (a Democrat) lectured his Democrat legislature to stop thinking about ways to spend, what money is left in the black, this year.

 

+1

Let's face it building more L2 chargers are not going to significantly increase US penetration of plug-ins. Reducing the costs of the vehicles is the number one problem, and that takes time. Range is the number 2 problem. These are a little conflicting as it takes more money to build more range, which means major cost reduction are needed for batteries. Luckily these are happening, and the government incentives are in place until those happen.

L3 (QC) chargers are important once range is good enough. Tesla seems to be the only bev with enough range for this to make a major difference, and most of the country will have L3 for it before 2017. Other car makers can contribute and speed this up, especially if they are planning to add more range. NRG one of the utilities is also installing L3 chargers. It is likely that Chademo needs to be upgraded for bigger packs/faster charging, but thesse chargers can be built to be upgradable like the tesla network. You only need about 20% of the quick chargers if the range is 150 miles versus 84 miles.

 

Perhaps but they could feed the natural gas into their EV charging stations. Or a Civic CNG car. Or the national electricity grid.

 

Japan recently cut back lng imports, by importing more coal. lng is expensive to get to Japan. Without the nukes, hydrogen is likely to come from coal and renewables in Japan, and they aren't building renewables fast enough to supply much hydrogen for decades.

In 2008 the US killed funding for FutureGen, which was an IGCC with CCS that also produced hydrogen. The gasification of coal produces methane, carbon monoxide, and hydrogen. At this step the hydrogen can be separated as a valuable by product, or it can be burned in the turbine with the methane and carbon monoxide. The problem is the cost of the plant.
"Clean" Coal Power Plant Canceled--Hydrogen Economy, Too - Scientific American

The best R&D that is suitable in the US is the Texas Clean Energy Project (TCEP), which should be complete in about 4 years, again government subsidized. This is nicknamed NowGen. The carbon dioxide captured will be sold to the oil companies, that use it to make wells more productive. When they stop buying it will be sequestered in the ground. The sale of the carbon dioxide makes it more economically viable. TCEP also takes the sulfur from the coal and sells sulfuric acid, and the nitrogen to make fertilizer. With gas so cheap in the US the plant does not make financial sense, but the research is important for China, Japan, and Germany now, and for the US when natural gas gets more expensive. TCEP does not separate the hydrogen like NextGen, but that process is well understood.

 

I think I'll just buy a Tesla. Electric sounds like the best future to reduce energy usage and of course it can come from anywhere (coal, oil, natural gas, uranium, .....)

 

Yep you could even recharge it from your Costco gasoline generator if you clean it's 60hz sin wave a bit
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Or off a home fuel cell unit.

 

Home fuel cell?
No.
Governments punish people who attempt to live off the grid. This is just one example of many:
Activist Post: Florida City to Evict Woman from Her Paid-for House for Living "Off the Grid"
Florida Woman Fights For Sustainability After Judge Declares Living Off The Grid Illegal | REALfarmacy.com | Healthy News and Information
Non-video link: Florida City Evicting Woman For Living Off The Grid | Off The Grid News