Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid UK with a flat battery again

Hi guys from UK, left some message in your forum sometimes ago but in the wrong week of the server going down and lost all the posts and subscription.

Beeing myself a victim of the unsolved mystery of the failure of EU 12V battery on Auris HSD, and a moderator of the italian hybrid cars forum, i can give you a picture of the problem in our and other EU countries.
- Italy, at least 12 cases on our forum, the change with new battery never worked
- Germany, on PriusFreunde, 23 cases
- France, first cases appearing on the net recently.

Problems exclusively on Top Auris HSD models with smart entry.
In actual fact, a lot of people not yet stranded, measures low voltages after just 24 hr parking. It is very clear that cases are no more than this just because most people use the car every day, few writes in internet, many lives with the problem thanks to a Ctek charger...

In actual fact, a big mess, with all the Toyota national rapresentative in denial.

For the users that asked about our battery, here my Auris HSd 2013 battery on the bench of the Toyota Assistance: of course Toyota testing device says "is perfect".

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x360q90/812/c59i.jpg

Be sure, the problem is one that only Toyota Europe can manage, with design level engineers by Toyota Japan, and the problem itself likely belongs to every EU Auris HSD Top version, Lounge in Italy, Style in France, Excel in UK, Dontknowwhat in Germany and so on... you're not alone, indeed...

 

Been looking into this and it appears the 35Ah Auris 12v is much lower capacity than the Prius 38Ah or 45 Ah 12v.

Tried to look at mine and can't find the rating, but many searches on the internet indicated that the gen3 Prius has a 45 Ah battery. Now this could answer the reasons why we're having 12v failures on the Auris. HOWEVER, until I see total proof from the exact specs from Toyota (or at least a part number or two), I'll hold back on saying this is definitely the reason.

 

Thanks for posting the photo of the Auris 12V battery. As previously discussed, that is rated at 35 Ah and happens to be the same battery as was installed in the Classic Prius (2001 - 2003 model years.) A similar battery (with reversed battery terminals) was installed in 2G Prius without the Smart system. That battery was marginal for those installations and it is not surprising to hear you are having trouble with that battery in the Auris. A much larger battery sourced from Panasonic was subsequently offered as a replacement Classic 12V battery, which required the battery bracket and cabling to be replaced. I believe that was rated at ~50 Ah or so.

The 2G with the Smart system and 3G Prius use a 45 Ah, S46B24R battery which is physically longer to provide the added Ah capacity.

 

Possible glove box light remaining on are there light by thr sun shades ?? ..
A friend of mine got a brand new Cadillac , constant battery issues , long story
Short , he got into the trunk , trunk shut , the trunk light remained on .... Issue closed

 

It's that the Auris is effectively the same running gear as the gen3 Prius in a different body shell BUT because of the small trunk, a much smaller 12v was used. This appears not to be upto the job; 35 Ah vs 45 Ah.

Problem seems to be solved for the owners in that it appears we know what is causing the fails. It's how Toyota UK fix it that is the unknown.

Let's hope someone from Toyota USA or Japan reads this and gives someone at Toyota UK (where the cars are made and subsequently sold to Europe) a good talking to to get this resolved. If Auris HSD's are failing left right and center, then Toyotas reputation for being a reliable car as well as the hybrid reputation could be ruined.

 

Hi Grumpy
Well, our italian Prius3 seems to have the same 35 Ah GS Yuasa , and i'm afraid EU Prius gen3 could be exactly the same: i suggest you to double check the rating on your battery, it must be written there...
No doubt, those 35 Ah battery are for capacity no way up to the job, generally speaking, but the problem is that even Prius Gen3 with the same 35 Ah had no probs other than in a very long resting. Same thing with Auris 2010 with smart entry. That puts the New Auris 2013 in a separate class of problems.

Moreover, in reply to the comments about the scarce capacity, another measuremaents made on our cars, (with the "secret menu" and Torque) shows that for the same lenght of time with the car parked, the dropping in voltage is not always the same every time, pointing to a random problem, the worse category.

Hi Running, i'm following your posts about the topic, but i do not share the point of view of the battery capacity beeing the culprit, for the reasons mentioned above.

Anyway i can tell you that Toyota Motor Italy asked one of our forum members, stranded 4 times, to bring in the car for a month in order to scrutineze the problem, of course swapping it with a courtesy car. Let see what they can find. But i do repeat, this is a job for Toyota Europe Headquarters in Belgium...

Thanks for the resumé Patrick, i was just looking to find out the battery timeline, 'cause i knew that this 35 Ah sometime in history was used in a Prius.... ;-)

 

My suggestion is that some Auris owners need to measure quiescent current draw when the car is IG-OFF and all doors closed (and if the Smart system is involved, the fob is placed more than 15 feet away.) See how this compares to Prius which has a current draw around 0.02A with the Smart system on.

 

Are you thinking that they've perhaps used a different Smart System that uses more power than the system fitted to the Prius?

 

As you know, in EU Toyota hybrids and hybrids in general have never ever reached global sales in excess of a single digit %, cause the killer diesels takes it all.
Auris and Yaris 2012-2013 are the first ever real success of hybrid technology in Europe, so that battery story, rapidly spread all over the internet, has already made big damages in terms of sales and image, for sure.
A bit of time more, and Toyota will be seen as the Orchestra playing on the sinking Titanic, maiden voyage included...

 

Well I wonder if the damage has started already. Sales appear down over here and Toyota Auris and Yaris hybrid commercials have been all over the tv lately. Car sales in the UK are up and up by record amounts now that the recession appears to be ending. If car sales are way up but hybrid sales are stagnant or down indicates an issue.

 

If the Smart entry stand-by current draw should be the culprit, it would be easy to spot by any technician. I can say that i've deactivated the smart entry from the vehicle menu, but nothing changed. Whether the menu deactivation really affects the draw or not, i dont know, but it did'nt worked.

I dont know for UK cars, but our italian Auris seems to be affected by an odd little problem of the Bluetooth system: every now and then, random, when you activate your smartphone bluetooth jumping in the car, automatically the Touch system opens up the media BT connection and starts playing the music from your smartphone. Of course if the car is properly powered up in Ready or IGN ON. Even if you have already de-associated the smartphone for music.
This is not a big issue, but it tells to me that in the BT system there's a bug. Now the BT is a current consuming device, could be part of the problem with some exotic fault?
I'm testing in these days a full de-activation of any BT device in the main BT menu: first test with 48hr parking, seems to work, IGN ON voltage 48 hr after was quite good and a lot higher then previously. But i need more testing, i know its a random problem...

 

Locking on to every BT device passing the car would/could be causing significant drain, especially in a busy city.

The problem is likely to be something the Japanese built Prius doesn't have.

So a low capacity 12v on European models and a buggy BT could be the reason. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Well, I don't know about the Smart system in particular.

The reason that I suggest it is necessary to measure quiescent current draw instead of worrying about measuring battery voltage is because quiescent current draw is dependent solely on the vehicle electronics that remain on when the car is IG-OFF.

Battery voltage is a function of quiescent current draw, as well as the state-of-charge and actual capacity of the 12V battery. So that will show a wider variability of results when measured by various owners.

I recognize it is easier to measure voltage than current, but I think it is important to measure quiescent current draw to further understand whether the root issue is a bunch of bad 12V batteries, or more systemic to the vehicle design.

 

I totally share the point of view, but i do assume that this check has been made by every single Toyota Assistance where such a huge number of stranded cars has been taken. In actual fact we have trouble judging what an excessive current draw is , because we dont know the reference value for Toyota.
I've been told (and i assume evryone got the same reply) that a car's system check has been made after the satisfactory test of the recharged battery. So i take it for granted.

 

Well, I'm suggesting that if you are an Auris concerned owner, you should start to develop your own idea of what the actual draw is and not assume what the local dealer tech is doing or not doing... For comparison the Prius 2G current draw is around 0.02A, with the Smart system on.

BTW, it seems to me that Auris is essentially the same as the Lexus CT200h sold in the US, except with a different front bumper design.
Lexus CT 200h Hybrid, CT F SPORT - 2014 - Technical Specs
Toyota Auris | Specs & Prices | Toyota UK

 

You right about the DIY approach, thanks for the info about the Prius, but i think its fundamental the reference design value for the draw, the simple comparison with the Gen 3 leaves me with a question mark about what to do.

About the structure of the New Auris, for our USA frienda, i can tell you that its a car bigger than the Prius C and quite similar to a Lexus Ct200h as dimensions are concerned.
The Lexus Ct200h is based on the old EU 2008 Auris, structure, suspension and mechanical layout included, and can be regarded as an old Auris redesign.
2013 Auris is a whole new design in everthing, markedly lowered as structure and with new sophisticated multilink rear suspension system , that gives incredible riding qualities to the car.
A far better and different car from the Lexus CT 200h that should be now regarded as an obsolete model.

PS: i seriously think the New Toyota Corolla for your market, even sharing some external and internal design feature with 2013 Auris, use the same structure , stretched.
Just quite more boring as style. We fail to understand why USA have to get those tuned down boring styles on your compact car

 

I understand that the Lexus CT200h uses the same 45 Ah battery as the current Prius: S46B24R. That battery size is barely sufficient for the Prius and there are many reports from US owners complaining about short battery life. Typically those reports come from owners who drive relatively few miles.

It is not surprising that the Auris' battery with 20% reduced capacity will leave even more owners dissatisfied with battery performance, even those who log a "normal" amount of annual miles.

I suggest that Auris owners will need to use an AGM battery charger periodically (2x per month for example) to keep the 12V battery fully-charged. When the original equipment battery dies, see if a larger battery can fit into the available space. It might be necessary to modify or replace the battery bracket to make this work.