Welcome to PriusChat

We'd love to have you join our community and participate in the conversation! Sign up for FREE today.

Sign Up
  1. TGB4 2014 Prius Convention Hotel Discounts are ending this week. Click for more information. All Access registration with personalized items ends Sept 1. Register now!

Volt mileage data from 130 mile trip

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by drinnovation, May 5, 2012.

Social Buttons

  1. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There have been multiple thread where the issue of Volt MPG in CS mode comes us an questions of real-world tradeoff vs say a prius in medium length trips (say 100-150 miles) of a mostly highway trip. I just did a 130mile trip this week and figured I'd share my data.

    We can deal with EPA numbers, with is 35 EV + 40highway so EPA for a 130 mile round trip one would expect 2.375 gallons and 54.7 MPG. A PiP with 50mpg highway and 11 EV miles would use 2.380 gallons. A EPA prius would be getting 48mpg and use 2.708 gallons. Then people here pos their real-world PiP data which is much better so .. yada yada yada..

    Real world for a reasonable Volt driver is also better than EPA. My EV mode data is 17% better, over 6000 miles, than EPA. My lifetime CS mileage is above it but not by as much, in part because more than half my ICE mileage was driving the car home when I purchased it.

    Below are my screen shots from this weeks trip to airport and then when i got home. I was mostly going with the right lane flow, though I passed a few times. Most driving was at 65mph with a few sections (maybe 10 miles) at 70-75 and maybe 10 miles (all EV) at < 45. Temps were upper 60's going, about 80F on the return. THere was no hypermileing (I had passengers), though of course I maintain a good distance, accelerating and decelerating smoothly. I just went with cruse control as I find it produces better EV range and better MPG.

    [​IMG]

    On the way there I used Mountain-mode to save some EV for the slow sections right around the airport, so I still had 15 miles of EV showing when I stopped. To airport was 35.2 EV miles and 63.2MPG


    The screen after the overall round trip.

    [​IMG]


    Round trip it was 48.9miles EV and 46.8 MPG. The fuel used was 12.9kwH + 1.72Gallons for overall 76MPG and 61.8 MPGe. Not too shabby for a 130 mile trip.

    I think there is more to the EPA variance with the Volt. Every time you accelerate enough the car may think you want to pass and drop from 2-motor mode to 1 motor. I just went with cruse control, and get better MPG. I think the EPA cycles, which don't have a any real segments of constant speed, make it hard for the car to know when to use two motor mode and when to use 1. It thus makes it hard for the battery buffer to really show its advantage when doing highway driving. I expect the PiP has the similar issues which is why we are seeing many people getting HV numbers well above EPA. Testing PHEVs just has a lot more variations and even more so than for an ICE, YMMV.



    So to those that say the Volt's gas milage is poor, I'll just reply that it must be the operators (including those at the EPA), like the people that only get 40mpg from a Prius. My most common runs that need gas is the airport, and in my Volt I'm getting 45+EV and 45+ MPG.
    5 people like this.
  2. scottf200

    scottf200 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    Good thread/post. Hope you don't mind me putting in my data from a trip I took today (Sat 6May2012).

    2/3rds driving 65 MPH in cruise control mainly. 1/3rd driving 35-50 MPH. Temps in mid-60F.

    68.4 TotMiles total = 40.8 EV miles and 27.6 gas miles.

    49.2 MPG gas = 27.6 gas miles using 0.56 gal of gas
    120 MPGused = 68.4 TotMiles using 0.56 gal of gas
    73 MPGe** = 68.4 TotMiles using 0.56 gal of gas and 12.9 kWh electricity

    [​IMG]


    ** MPGe calculated using spreadsheet via Progressive Automotive X PRIZE: Calculating MPGe
    6 people like this.
  3. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Figure I'd update with my most recent trip data -- Nice weather helps though with my passengers I needed to run AC in eco mode.

    Today I drove in Mountain Mode so I could save some battery for after the first stop and drive EV in downtown, then did not use mountain mode on the way home. This seemed to help the MPG a bit.

    [​IMG]

    Overall 83MPG on a 130mile trip, and my first 50+50 day :rockon:
    1 person likes this.
  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Nice to see some real world data. I think a lot of "trained" Prius drivers would get similar results, high 40s for EV miles and 50+ MPG on the gas, if they would only give the car a try.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    20,174
    Likes Received:
    3,262
    Location:
    boston
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    after prius, those numbers would be unacceptable to me. but if i had a 40-50 mile r/t trip commute, i would consider it.
  6. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    Unacceptable? Really.. what's your MPG for a 130mile trip in your PiP?
    if you could get 15miles in CD and 70MPG_CS, you still would have < 80MPG overall. The best HV efficiency on the PC spreadsheet is 67mpg are you doing better than that? Are you taking lots of 200mile trips? Maybe you should be adding your stuff to the spreadsheet.

    What is your MPG over the past month?
  7. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,326
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think scottf200's lifetime MPG of 248 is not too shabby. He's got it up to 256 on the latest entry inVoltstats.net.
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,527
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two


    I'm confused by this 12.9 kwh number. Was there a recharge mid-trip ?
  9. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    No mid-station recharge. I measure power from the wall, not what the car reports. (My 2011 does not report anything anyhow).

    12.9kWh is what I measured for a full charge in mild weather. When its either hot or cold it can go up to 13.1 or so as the TMS takes added power while charging. (To be honest I did not measure that day, just used data from mild days in the fall. My measurements were between 12.7 and 12.9 when temps were 60-70's)
  10. bajapat

    bajapat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    southington ct
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    MM is a forced recharge it tries to keep the battery at 40% so if your under that it will over rev to recharge the battery to that .

    BTW 40% is = to 15 or so miles
  11. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A



    I am aware of MM and what it can do. MM was engaged when I left, so it did not need to "recharge", just work like a hold-mode and saved 18 of EV miles for when I got off the highway in denver. Battery was then consumed on the way home.


    This is very common trip for me (either the DIA airport or nearby areas like CU health science campus). I did it many times in the fall, and included using MM to recharge from below its minimum SOC. (At the time I though that MM could get better milage based on some statements from GM engineers about being able to get higher mileage but it would be noiser at higher RPMS). At the time I though I was going great because I was getting 44-45 MPG in CS and 73 overall. If I just did standard, and run it down to CS mode, I was getting 41-42 MPG_CS and 70 overall.

    What I have found since then (but still want to verify with torque logging, if I can get it to work on 2 trips) is that by engaging MM when I leave, saving the EV for the city portion, I am getting overall better MPG. The MM games also provided EV in denver, and my guess is that I gained from that but loss by wasting energy recharging. Pretty sure that is the case, but I want torque logs so I can better ensure I'm not driving slower one day than the next. I usually have passengers on these trips so cannot pay detailed attention to my speed, I just go with the flow of the right lane.
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    20,174
    Likes Received:
    3,262
    Location:
    boston
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base


    i'm thinking more along the lines of doing my commute in pure electric and any other trips being able to get 70-75 after the electric runs out. i have been getting 65 mpg in the genII for almost 8 years. i want/have to move forward. but you're right in a practical sense, i don't take any 200 mile trips. so for my commute the pip is perfect and if it was 50 miles r/t, the volt would be perfect, all the other negative factors aside.
    1 person likes this.
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,527
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two


    Thanks for the explanation. Very reasonable way to report, but it is different from most PiP reports that just read off the kwh from the dash (and thus do not include charging losses.)

    Works out to 263 wh/mile. This is so much lower than EPA I wonder why. Is MM burning petrol but crediting the miles as EV ?
  14. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A



    The 263 just a bit high for me, in this nice weather. My average so far in May is 248 wh/mile. My car starts the day showing 48-50miles of EV estimates range and I probably hit 50 (as 40is real to 10s estimated) 3 out of 5 days a week. Other days I push it harder if I'm running late (i.t. 75mph on the highway). When I have the time I take more side streets and when I do I can hit 50 most days I try. I've had 5 days of actual milage 50 or better CD range since April, but then I've only had 8 days over 45 miles total.

    I did worry about MM messing with the stats (it can easily do that if you turn it on when below 40% SOC..). I'm turning it on early so that does not happen but never sure what is going on under the covers. This is is part-of why I really like the 50EV+50MPG_CS day, since there is not much room to "trade" one for the other with that type of performance, its about 30% above EPA in EV range and 25% above it in highway MPG_CS.


    I like to think it is because I'm efficient driver. I think many prius drivers could get similar results. Mostly its that the EPA numbers are weak, consistently. Remember, the EPA got nearly 50 miles on a carge then multilied by .7 to provide their official estimate. They presume they overestimate by 30% and multiple to correct.

    As I've said in some other posts I think the battery usage is even more sensitive to variations in drivers than the ICE, so there is greater variance around the EPA estimates. If you look at the PC spreadsheet for the PiP, there is also very large variations, even for the same individual.
    2 people like this.
  15. bajapat

    bajapat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    southington ct
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    Someone asked .. I knew you knew what it was....

    you don't have to be defensive with me....:eek:
  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,527
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two


    Both should vary by demand (speed, braking etc), but the ICE should also vary by thermo efficiency.

    Am I wrong in thinking the power Thermo efficiency curve for batteries and electric motors is quite a bit flatter than an ICE, in the ranges cars are used at ?

    Btw, have you verified the car's petrol consumption meter with gallons pumped calculations ? I thought my CTh was doing quite good until actual measurements of fuel pumped are now showing the meter is ~ 5% optimistic. I use the car in a manner that sounds quite similar to you: 1/3rd 50 mph easy driving, 2/3rds highway mostly at 65ish with spurts of 70-80 mph. March to May MPG is about 24% over EPA. I do have to 'drive with load' to see that improvement, and both of us benefit from high altitude in our fuel economy stats.
  17. sxotty

    sxotty Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    BTW I do about 30% worse than EPA ratings :) Sorry I know that makes me the devil incarnate, but that is why I like the idea of an EV/EREV.
  18. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    I agree think the Thermo efficacy for EV is better in mild temps though it falls of fast in cold temps. I think the reason for the higher variance is the lack of feedback.. when you push your ICE car hard you hear it. When you push your EV, you don't. When I first started driving the Volt I found my self doing 85-90 without even noticing. (I used CruseControl now so don't get speed creep. ) And the acceleration is addictive, and regen takes some learning.





    Yes, so far my computed MPG_CS per trip and what I compute using voltstats.net data (which shows me gallons in the tank) and then what I get with gallons at fillup have been close. First two were underreported by about 1%, last tank over-reported by 2%, but I alway stop on the first click off (volt is sensitive to over-filing) and it was a different station than the first two. Also since the last tank lasted 5+ months maybe there was some evaporative losses.

    Yes the thin air can help a bit.
  19. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    CO
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    if you are 30% worse on EV, and paying for renewable, then enjoy. Otherwise earn some karma-points and find a way to charge green.
    If you are 30% worse on ICE, well then maybe should need to get a tesla, so you can bad but still green.:D

    But if you are driving on the wind, its not too bad to have some fun.
    There are days when I go into sport+L (especially when giving test drives or when I know I'll have a lot of energy left over, and I'm feeling like fun.
  20. sxotty

    sxotty Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Part of it to be honest is that I have only really short trips and drive rarely now. I use way less gasoline than the average person b/c I ride my bike. However when I do drive the trips are relatively short (<10mi) so engine isn't warm and I tend to drive spiritedly. On the highway I do fine if I don't have a bike rack, but driving on the freeway following the speed limit with three bikes on the roof destroys mileage anyway.
    1 person likes this.
Similar Threads: Volt mileage
Forum Title Date
Chevrolet Volt Chevy Volt and Gen III Prius discussion about: "green" energy, mileage, etc Jul 12, 2012
Toyota Prius Plug-in 2014 Plug in Prius 110 volt charging? Monday at 7:34 AM
Gen III 2010+ Prius Technical Discussion Prius 12 volt charging current Sunday at 7:06 PM
Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News Chervrolet Volt 2016 - what if... Aug 16, 2014
Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News Next plug-in Volt to roll in January... Aug 8, 2014