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What if tow trucks carried tire plugs and could 'fix' (some) flats?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by davekro, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I think it would be a great service to add if all tow trucks were required to carry tire plugs. (Especially for us Plug In owners! ;))
    It certainly could save a lot of folks without spares a lot of time and hassle, should the repair be a single hole an inch or more from the sidewall. Granted this may represent 50% or less of the flat tires called in for, but for whoever it is a fit for, it could reduce costs for the provide as well as save time for the customer. (Especially for the lady who goes to her car at the end (or beginning?) of her work day to find her tire is flat. I'm guessing that even if customers were required to sign release of liability waivers, that liability would be the issue the suppliers would balk on this about. What do you think?

    I may be dreaming that Toyota, Ameriprise, AAA or anyone would implement this idea, but I thought it was worth an inquiry, so I sent the following email message to Toyota and a similar one to my insurance company, Ameririse. I'm curious if I will get any responses.

    UPDATE: Someone mentioned that recently AAA RS assistance plugged her tire and sent her on her way. Any other AAA member confirm that they do this across the board?

    "Please forward this suggestion to the person/department that could consider it:



    I’d like to make a suggestion for a service to add to Roadside Assistance that could reduce Toyota’s costs as well as potentially save your customers much time and hassle. Many newer cars do not come with any spare tire, so a flat requires a tow. Often a flatbed is needed, which is not realized until a regular tow truck comes and needs to call in for the next available flatbed. This can cause the customer to wait an additional hour or more.



    1) If you were to require the tow service providers that you use to carry tire plugs, you (and the customer) could avoid the car needing to be towed (and the people in the car transported). Even if only half of the flat tire calls you received fit the parameters that a plug would fix (single hole more than one inch from sidewall edge), that could save those customers a long time wasting process, for just having a flat tire.

    2) Or, allow Roadside Assistant driver to use the customer’s plug kit to do the repair. *

    3) Toyota could require the customer to sign a release of liability waiver and notice that the repair is only recommended to get you home or to a shop. This could eliminate liability to Toyota or the repair person.

    4) I think this would be an excellent cost and time saving procedure for the industry to adopt.

    5) These cars without spares often do, come with a small 12V compressor and a container of sealant, but it ruins the (expensive) TPMS sensor in the tire valve stem, is a long process for the person attempting this repair and may not seal the puncture.



    * I have added a 12V compressor that can connect directly to the valve stem, a plug kit and tools to our Prius Plug In so that I could do this repair if I am there. But being this is my wife’s commute car, odds are that she would be the one to experience a flat, if one occurred. If she picked up a nail on the way to work, she could come back to the car at the end of the day with a flat, which may be easily repaired with a simple plug.



    I wanted to make this suggestion and see what if any, the barriers to instituting this new type of service might be.



    Thank you for your excellent service years and your consideration in this matter.



    Sincerely,
     
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  2. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    I think it is more of a insurance issue from what I hear. Most repair shops only will use a Patch and plug system now and they have to take the tire off the rim to do this.

    Now for me I have used plug only in my 1 ton vans for 15 years and never had a problem with a leak of any kind. YMMV, and I am not an attorney.
     
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  3. Ken Blake

    Ken Blake Active Member

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    I work at a Lexus dealer, and we only use tire patches, as retired4999 stated. These do require R&R of the tire to install.
     
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  4. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I understand that 'tire shops' will only do the (from the inside) patch with plug and only if hole is an inch or more from the tread edge. This surely does insure the repair is permanent and adds miniscule (if any) liabilty possibilities. But like you, I have plugged (and had plugged) many cars, trucks and my 1 ton box van once over many years and never had one fail. I even have done one or two tires where plug was on or 'just' outside the edge of tread (but not down on side wall) with no long term issue. In my limited experience, plugs have been a permanent fix out lasting the tire.

    So, yes, what an insurance company/ lawyers 'feel' risk free from, is about what we can expect the outcome to be. I wonder if the tire industry has stats on failed plugs that made them arrive at the 1" and 'patch/plug' rule, or if it was engineering decision? Like maybe their stats said one in 10,000 exterior plugs installed up to the edge of the tread failed. Or what ever # was 'too many' for the insurance company. As a statistic of one person, I am fine if one day a plug fails on me and Heven forbid the tire goes flat again. Fine, I'll buy a new tire then! ;) But then, my team of personal lawyers :ROFLMAO: is fine with that risk.
     
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  5. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    I had a slow leak on my 2010 Prius that was plugged by Just Tires and the tire wasn't ever removed. They said it would be fine. And it was. For the next two years I had the car. I even rotated them and probably put close to 30,000 miles on them.

    Odd that everyone says the tire shops won't plug tires. Has something changed since 2010?
     
  6. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    The shops around here put what they call a plug and patch all in one. They say thats all they will install! Insurance or make more money? You make the call. 10 dollar plug or 35 dollar plug patch!:sneaky:
     
  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    So thousands of companies should change their operating procedures and possibly hundreds of thousands of operators must learn how to properly plug a flat just because another company made a design compromise to drop the spare tire?
     
  8. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    Yeah, sure.. thats kind of how things work if you are in the service business.. you either provide a service and get paid for it, or you can sit around and complain how its ridiculous you need to learn how to plug a tire because a number of automotive companies no longer provide a spare tire.
     
  9. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    ...another company? You'd be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that's including a spare across the board. A large number of cars are now being sold without them and more will surely follow.

    Lead, follow or get out of the way.
     
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  10. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Don't fool yourselves. The truth is car mfgs are not including spare wheel assys across the board to save on cost, space and because we and lack of government regs allows it...period.

    If you have a flat, replace or repair per industry standards. You let every "bubba" with a tow truck throw tire plugs around like you say and there will be problems. What you do with your own vehicle is your choice, but I care more about the safety of my loved ones...and I am a Mechanic.
     
  11. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :)I don't see a safety issue having a tire plugged, IF, the leak is in the tread. I've had tires plugged for over forty years. Ninety five percent have been problem fee. A few developed slow leaks after time. The reason I prefer having a tire plugged, it prevents damage to my wheels. Give 90% of the tire changers a chance, and they will damage you wheels.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I did my first plug repair one our OEMs, about 18 months back. Just 2 weeks back did a second on one of snow tires. No problems. The first instance was a very slim finishing nail, the next a somewhat larger headed screw. In both instances they were more-or-less straight in. The plug repair was straightforward, completely sealed it.

    To the OP, maybe just pick up a kit, do it yourself. The tow truckers likely would have professional liability. But DIY repair of small screw or nail has been very easy and effective, in my (limited) experience.
     
  13. davekro

    davekro Member

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    In other tire/ flat threads I have detailed my quest to outfit my car with a good plug kit (w/ extra pair of T-handles ;o), 12V compressor and the tools to remove objects and install thin or standard plugs out on the road. The project is complete and the car has on board everything needed too plug and inflate a flat tire... If I'm there. The issue is that the PIP is my wife's commute car (1.5 hrs one way), so odds are if a flat ever happens, it will be when I am not there. If and when I repair a flat on any of our cars at home, I will show her the process, but I don't know if she will want to of be up to the job. It can be a B!7€h to get the rasp and hook w/ plug into a small nail puncture ( I have broken more than one plastic T-handle), though I have hopes the smaller diameter plugs I just found will make that easier.

    Thinking just now, that nail holes are 'usually' slow leaks, she may be able to just add air with the aftermarket compressor that is now in the car, if she finds a flat when going to leave work. Maybe I will consider picking up a junkyard donut that " I " can bring from home to the car if need be.

    Oh, and I removed the OEM compressor/sealant kit from the car so it cannot F' up an already challenging situation if someone besides myself was trying to help my wife.
     
  14. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    I do not care who you are, you can not properly (or improperly) repair a tire faster than swapping out a spare...and sure as hell faster than waiting for a tow truck.

    Your tires, your cars, your Wife and family...but if you cause an accident that causes damage to me and mine due to your improper tire repairs...I will see you in court. ;)
     
  15. davekro

    davekro Member

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    Well, not having a PIP, you have the luxury of carrying a spare that does not sit in the middle of your cargo area, so sort of an apples and donuts situation. But I won't drivin' in Texas, so you are as safe as you believe yourself to be. ;)
     
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  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I just could foresee a whole lot of potential mess.

    Do you really want to trust an unknown Tow Truck operator with on the spot tire repair? Would Tow Truck companies and operators want the potential liability if the plug failed?

    What if an owner, thinks the hole IS repairable, but the Tow Truck driver thinks it isn't?

    No, when I call a Tow Truck driver, I want my vehicle towed.
    I'll call roadside assistance for any issue below that threshold.
     
  17. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    FWIW, I would not drive without a spare...also...I still have people in Fremont and Alameda.
     
  18. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I may be mistaken then. I thought the Roadside Assitance companies contracted with local tow truck companies, so that when you called roadside assistance, the assistant came driving a tow vehicle. As far as worrying about a plug 'failure' (read slow leak that most likely got you home or at least closer to,it and you can add more air from your own compressor or a gas station's), installing a plug is not rocket surgery. Of course if the assistant sent believes it is not plugable (closer than 1" to edge of tread or too big a hole), then he tows you.

    It is likely just wishful thinking due to perceived liability, that Roadside Assitance would go against the current 'acceptable way to plug a tire' (patch with plug from inside), but I just thought I'd pose the idea because personally I think it could help maybe 25% - 50% of flat tire calls. I'm not the litigious type, I don' think about sueing people (or companies). I just think it has the potential to save money and time. You may disagree, and certainly that is fine with me. :)
     
  19. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well it might vary from company to company, service to service. I know I've seen some AAA road side assistance trucks that are just regular full sized pick-ups, they aren't obviously being sent to tow. I would expect they do things like jump batteries and locked keys in cars.

    I don't know. In my lifetime, I've seen a lot of things that weren't "Rocket Science" get screwed up.

    I still think it's a potential liability issue. When a tow truck tows you, it tows your vehicle from Point A to B, then conceivably their liability ends. If they plug a flat? Well you, and them, are both trusting it was done right, and the tire is now viable. Can you imagine the mess, if a tow truck driver plugged a flat, then the driver of the vehicle was involved in an accident as a result of the failure of that plug?

    Any "solution" that requires the signing of a release of liability waiver, is one I have great trepidation about.
     
  20. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I defend your right to not drive without a spare. I also defend Toyota's right to sell cars without spares... er, wait... :eek:O. ;)