and there you go boys and girls.... 17th ranked by the number of NTHSA complaints. How many freaking manufacturers are there?????? Does anyone need any further proof? Edmunds: Customer Complaint Data Shows Toyota Ranked 17th - WSJ.com
There was a time long, long, long ago when Toyota was in the top 3. I read an article recently that tracked Toyota's slide in quality surveys to when it decided to toss the incremental growth model to leapfrog GM and Ford to become the number 1 sales volume company. Then the mantra became just be good enough. I guess they are now good enough to be able to claim the title of Recall Champion.
Actually for this ranking, the larger the number, the better performing the company is. Toyota did better than those companies that were ranked 1 - 16. Perhaps spwolf might post the list of names to benefit those readers who don't subscribe to wsj.com?
So does a lower ranking mean fewer complaints for that manufacturer .... which would be good? The figure needs to be normalized to market share somehow.
Yeah, that was a little confusing to read... 1st place = worst (MOST complaints per % of market share) So in other words, 16 other manufacturers (including Detroit's big 3) are WORSE than Toyota, i.e.: they have a higher percentage of complaints despite having a smaller market share. Toyota: 9.1% of all complaints, 13.5% of the market (ratio: 0.67) Chrysler: 16.3% of all complaints, 13.0% of the market (ratio: 1.25 - almost twice as bad) At some point (if there aren't any other stories to cover) the newsies will dig into the other companies records - and probably find far more dangerous (and more widespread) issues than Toyota's.
Here's the source article (does NOT require a subscription/registration on WSJ): Toyota Recalls Put into Context by Edmunds.com
Tks for the heads up, spwolf. Tks to Edmunds and to the WSJ for balanced reporting as well ( as opposed to ABC for example ). This certainly puts things in proper perspective.
First of all, let me say that I love my Prius. Secondly, let me point out that I'm a Moderator on a Prius forum. Thirdly, let me point out that this chart shows the number of complaints. Now I realize that the only way to know something is wrong is when the customer complains but what if people aren't complaining for one reason or another? What if the people who bought the car are content with a few minor quirks and don't want to take the time to fill out a complaint online? As a statistical model, one should ask whether we have determined the reliability of the vehicles or the likelihood that owners of particular vehicles will file complaints. (the reason for points 1 and 2 above is to emphasize that I'm scrutinizing the data and am not attempting to find a way to attack Toyota)
well NTHSA database is not really for some minor quirks like your plastic making sounds, but what people believe are safety issues and besides it is very hard to imagine that owners of one brand could be reporting more problems than others just because... especially this is the case with brands that sell cars to wide range of buyers, but even if we look at the data, we will see that Land Rover while luxury brand, has most complaints and Porsche, again luxury brand, has very low number of complaints, and they probably share similar buyers. So I dont see why would Toyota/Lexus drivers expect less from their vehicles than.. Hyundai drivers for instance? In fact, i think they expect more as people buy Toyota and Lexus for their reliability fame.
i kind of expect that media starts another witch hunt in few weeks/months and this time they will be asking who staged this attack on Toyota ;-). AND, keep in mind this very important fact - they counted the numbers until Feb 3. After first recall was announced in November, NTHSA started getting a lot more complaints from drivers, and again, a lot more after Jan 21st. Quite possibly Toyota result would have been even a lot better if they counted only until recall was announced (as after recall everyone blamed Toyota for everything). So those numbers posted were very fair.
Spurious argument - unless you can prove that owners of a particular brand are more prone to complaining, while owners of another brand are less prone to do so. It seems far, far more likely that the propensity to complain is proportional to the level of defects.
P.S.: if this forum is representative, Toyota owners are MORE likely to complain, despite fewer actual defects... And the opposite may be true of crappier brands - people are used to them having more flaws and are less likely to complain. But I still think it's more probable that more defects = more complaints.
Hmm... Without your disclaimers, I might think you were disputing the authenticity of the data because it would require changing your world-view... Sounds like a lot of people these days...
Finally! It is sooo good to read an objective article based on empirical evidence. I'm asked about once a day if I've had accelerator or brake problems and I'm sick to death of it. I usually just say something about media hype but now I have something credible to point to. Thanks for the heads-up.
