1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

July 16,640 Prius, down from 19,150 in June

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,574
    4,114
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    When you read the blurb, hybrid cars simply used June's percentage sales and applied them to the prius liftback, prius v, and prius c. Toyota has not yet broken down july numbers for us. Until they do, I would not assume Prius c sales fell.

    July Fusion numbers are meaningless, ford is getting rid of the 2012s before the 2013s go to dealers. The real test comes when the c-max and 2013 fusion hybrids and energis are on dealer lots in quantity.

    Camry, Sonata, and 2013 fusions hybrids represent a good oportunty for continued growth. These cars are very similar to their high selling ice only versions, but provide much better city mileage. We can hope they can get 10% of a very large mid size sedan with trunk market.

    Lexus ct200 seems like a hit, and a much better compromise than the hs250.

    The malibu and other gm eco models are e-assist, not really hybrids. They aren't that far from honda's mild hybrids though.
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    eAssist is their name for their 2nd gen BAS mild-hybrid system.

    The Malibu's been getting more activity because GM was selling the '13 Malibu in eAssist form only (before the non-eAssist) versions alongside ther '12 Malibu non-hybrids.

    I think GM's now having more market success by ditching the hybrid moniker, where they're ridiculed for poor performance and little improvement and instead calling them Eco (for the Malibu) or eAssist.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,395
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    For those who like the 'big picture:'
    Column 1
    0 [th]sales[th]model[tr][td]10080[td]Toyota Prius Liftback [tr][td][td] [tr][td]3787[td]VW Jetta [tr][td]3197[td]Toyota Camry [tr][td]3065[td]Prius c [tr][td]2810[td]Prius v [tr][td][td] [tr][td]2171[td]VW Passat [tr][td]1938[td]Chevy Malibu Hybrid [tr][td]1888[td]Hyundai Sonata [tr][td]1849[td]Chevrolet Volt [tr][td]1499[td]Lexus CT 200h [tr][td]1171[td]Lexus RX400/450h [tr][td]1109[td]Ford Fusion [tr][td][td] [tr][td]886[td]VW Golf [tr][td]867[td]Buick LaCrosse [tr][td]848[td]Kia Optima [tr][td]758[td]BMW X5 [tr][td]688[td]Prius PHV [tr][td]594[td]Linc. MKZ Hybrid [tr][td]471[td]Honda Civic [tr][td]469[td]Toy. Highlander [tr][td]425[td]Mercedes ML320 [tr][td]419[td]Honda Insight [tr][td]395[td]Nissan LEAF [tr][td]332[td]VW Touareg [tr][td]330[td]Honda CR-Z [tr][td]304[td]Audi A3 [tr][td]264[td]Mercedes GL320 [tr][td]233[td]Buick Regal [tr][td]231[td]Audi Q7 [tr][td]212[td]Mercedes E320 [tr][td]110[td]Acura ILX [tr][td]102[td]Mercedes S350
    Source: July Hybrid Dashboard report. Everything below 100 is 'in the noise' and trimmed out.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,395
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    You bring up a very good point. Stop-start is likely to become nearly universal. But to call them hybrids still stretches reality.

    I'm thinking about going with some sort of scatter chart showing unit sales vs combined MPG. Then figuring out some sort of labeling that leaves it understandable. This is not a trivial problem ... much like the answer to life, the universe, and everything . . . 42.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,574
    4,114
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    It seems like an improved system, but gm likely changed the name because of backlash against calling such a mild hybrid system. It does have a beefed up 15 KW alternator that can do regen braking and supply power, and a lithium battery. It can also do start stop, and likely has other changes. It only gets the similar if slightly worse fuel efficiency as the new altima, and the 2013 fusion 1.6L eco-boost. Ford offers start stop on that engine as a $300 option, with a beefier alternator, beefier lead acid battery, and an electric pump for the hydraulic fluid for automatic transmissions.

    Really the gm system is not much different from the honda system. The motor does hang off the ice with a belt, instead of off the shaft. If one's a hybrid the other is a hybrid. From a functional point of view though, that fusion gives you the efficiency and start stop of a mild hybrid. The 2013 hybrid fusion though does pump it up to 45mpg.
     
  6. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    3,938
    1,351
    28
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Not sure about the Malibu e-assist in the list of Hybrids. Other cars like the regular Camry is at 28mpg and the Nissan Altima with 31mpg combined.

    Compare Side-by-Side
     
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Yeah, the '13 Malibu eAssist's combined is pretty underwhelming compared to cheaper vehicles that Sersiospl points out. The only people that seem interested in it are GM fanboys...

    I've never driven a GM BAS hybrid, but as I posted at Test drive event discussion thread | PriusChat, the BMW 328i with auto-start/stop makes pretty amusing sounds. On restart, it sounds very much like the sounds you hear on conventional cars when starting, but just w/much shorter duration. You NEVER hear these types of sounds being emitted from HSD hybrids.

    Along these lines, I'd seen some chatter about the '12 BMW 3-series alternator. From one of BMW's press releases:
    Anyway, so not quite mild-hybrid but a step further than just auto-start/stop.
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,574
    4,114
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    lol. Technically I don't see much of a difference between the honda system and the gm system. If ones a hybrid so is the other. From an efficiency point of view though honda uses atkinson engines and cvt transmissions. Both use lithium batteries and about the same size motors. :) I do hear weird noises from my prius if I don't have the stereo up loud enough. I have no idea what the eAssist sounds like, but it probably sounds louder at starts, but more normal the rest of the time.

    But, the malibu is not in the same efficiency ballpark as the camry, sonata, or fusion hybrids. Since we are mainly concerned about efficiency in this hybrid mid size market, lets do the cut off around 33 mpg combined - 2011 camry hybrid cut off. The 2013 fusion start/stop and altima with cvt come close with 30mpg and 31 mpg respectively. Both of those have some things in common with the full hybrids. The lines get blurry. Even the conventional 2012 toyota camry gets 28mpg.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,395
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I like the Hybrid Dashboard report because it collects a broad range of fuel efficient vehicles from hybrids, diesels, and the growing EV/plug-ins. I just don't feel comfortable trimming specific models.

    I trimmed the low volume vehicles whose sales are 'in the noise.' My shortened list still covers two orders of magnitude, a 100-to-1 ratio. I've still thought about a separate post with the "noise" vehicles but it isn't clear there is much interest in the lower end of the sales scale . . . too easy to gloat and not gain useful insights.

    I have thought about maintaining a table of MPG by model to add a column to the ordered, table. But then I start thinking about MSRP, payload volume, and seat count. Like 'tar baby,' you touch it and soon you've got a job updating the supporting table. But if I limit it to the top "n" models from each month. . . it might be practical.

    So I think you can see the pattern:
    • early Toyota sales numbers - not broken out by Prius model, yet.
    • hybrid dashboard - the efficient vehicle market a week later
      • summary table a day or so later
    Bob Wilson
     
    Chazz8 likes this.
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,395
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Thank you!
    Tuesday morning I visited the local Ford dealer and they are offering a significant rebate, $3,000(?), to clear their current inventory. But I was there to inspect this model before it disappears:
    • electrically operated seats - nice, with lots of leg room and options. However, the edges of my butt felt like they were resting awkwardly against raised sides. This may be adjustable but compared to the pickup-style, bench seat style of the Prius c, it wasn't what I expected.
    • steering adjustments - like our Prius, not enough range
    • mechanical and other layout - not bad, a fine sedan
    • 2.5L engine - having towed 1,800 lbs of trailer and airplane, a stronger engine would be desirable
    • 150W, 110VAC, cabin inverter - nice touch but it needs to be 1.0-1.5kW
    I didn't have time (or interest) in a test drive. Having driven their first, Ford Escape hybrid, I am confident this car handles and feels like an American boat or something like it.

    This is the last model-year of the Ford Fusion hybrid and with the rebate (tax credit too??) a good deal for a first-time, hybrid buyer.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    ^^^
    Tax credit on hybrids that aren't PHEVs ended awhile ago, for all manufacturers. :(

    I have driven a FFH briefly, I think 2x at an autoshow earlier this year. Ford was out front offering test drives. It was a decent car and I liked the displays.

    IIRC, their Focus had broken down so it wasn't available. :LOL:
     
    bwilson4web likes this.