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New Standard Will Cut EV Charging Time

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by mrbigh, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) approved a revised standard last week that will let electrified vehicles charge their batteries much quicker -- in as little as 10 minutes for plug-in hybrids or 20 minutes for battery-electric cars. The standard brings new technology to public charging stations and parking garages, but not to homes.
    "Before, it was a matter of hours to charge an electric vehicle battery," Andrew Smart, director of SAE International, told us. "Now it will be a matter of minutes."
    The J1772 standard calls for so-called DC fast charging, using voltages ranging from 200V to 500V and currents of up to 200A. Earlier versions described methods using voltages of 120V or 240V and currents of 15A or 80A. Using the new technology, plug-in hybrids will be able to go from 0 percent to 80 percent charge in 10 minutes; battery-electrics could go from 20 percent to 80 percent in 20 minutes.
    [​IMG]
    GM's Spark EV could be the first to employ the new DC fast charging standard.
    (Source: GM)

    The standard calls for connectors and electrical interfaces with two extra pins on board. Electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids already on the road, such as the Chevy Volt, will not be able to use the new technology immediately, since they don't have the new hardware and software. However, Kevin Kelly, a spokesman for General Motors, told us its forthcoming Spark battery-electric vehicle will have the new connector, interface, and software. "It's less important to do this on the Chevy Volt, because the Volt already has extended range on board," he said. "But it makes a lot of sense for the Spark EV."
    The J1772 standard was created in 1996. It was revised in 2001 for use with a paddle-type connector and again in 2010 with a continued focus on AC charging. The new version is the first to address DC fast charging and the first to describe voltages as high as 500V and currents as much as 200A.
    The standard reflects a consensus of 190 global experts representing makers of automobiles and charging equipment, as well as utilities, national labs, and municipalities. The experts had to consider the effects of temperature, humidity, and moisture, as well as mechanical aspects.
    "You have people who are constantly plugging and unplugging it," Smart said. "You need to know everything, including the fatigue levels of the wires, connectors, and plastics. You also need to get input from people on the infrastructure side -- you've got people who write building codes, and you've got municipalities. It's not just the automakers."
    Automakers say the technology could have a profound effect on the sale of pure electric vehicles, many of which require eight or more hours of charging. "This is a standard that everyone was waiting for," Smart said. "Everyone wanted it to be done quickly. But when it comes to developing a consensus between 190 technical specialists, it takes time."

    Full article HERE
     
    #1 mrbigh, Oct 25, 2012
  2. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Except that "Fast" charging will generally diminish EV battery life.

    JeffD
     
    #2 jdenenberg, Oct 25, 2012
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Wow that's a lot of current flow.
    Wonder what devious minds will think of to do with it?
     
    #3 wjtracy, Oct 25, 2012
  4. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Agreed but, if the major manufacturers adopt the newest standard, it mean that they will have their back cover against any battery assembly malfunctions. In one way or the other, the batteries will get recharged by a DC power factor at higher Amp levels completely supervised by a more sophisticated BMS product.
    Besides, the Leaf is capable of high current DC charging today days.
     
    #4 mrbigh, Oct 25, 2012
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    It'll be interesting to see how GM markets this in their new "Sub Sonic" EV.....or whether they do so at all.
    They're keeping their cards kinda close to the vest as it is....and let's face it. The Spark is already something of a niche vehicle.
    My thinking is that the new standard is geared for batteries and management systems that haven't yet made the whiteboard to working prototype leap.
    It's gonna happen.......eventually.......and now there is a charging standard to support it.
     
    #5 ETC(SS), Oct 25, 2012
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Present generation batteries don't like to be charged for more than a few seconds at a rate faster than 1-2C. That means a LEAF with a 24 kWh battery can be fast charged at 24-48 kW for an hour. Tesla is charging the 85 kWh pack on the Model S at around 90 kW. The GM Spark will probably have around 20 kWh worth of batteries like the Honda Fit EV so even though the new SAE fast charging standard can charge fast enough for a Model S, I expect the actual charge rate for the Spark to be no faster than the CHAdeMO-based LEAF (and Fit EV Japanese version).

    So, there won't be any cars in the near term that use the full capacity of the new SAE standard unless Tesla comes out with an adapter for it to be used with the Model S. A new charge standard is important for future large pack EVs because CHAdeMO will be too slow for them and it doesn't have an existing evolutionary plan to support anything beyond it's maximum rated 62.5 kW (500V at 125A). Tesla is talking about charging at up to 120 kW in the future.
     
    #6 Jeff N, Oct 25, 2012
  7. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    How does 90KW charging work? A 200 amp service is good for around 45KW. I see where the S can use 100 amps at 230V, but that is a long way from 90KW.
     
    #7 drysider, Oct 26, 2012
  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I believe the Model S charges at around 440V DC at up to around 200A on their Level 3 charging system.
     
    #8 Jeff N, Oct 26, 2012
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    We already had discussion of this in SAE agrees on J1772 Standard Charging Plug for PHEVs and EVs | PriusChat. So far, this Frankenplug appears to be going to used by the Frankenfew.

    See My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - SAE combo plug/Frankenplug EV/PHEV car list. How many of those players have serious EV programs and how many do they project to sell in the near future? There are already 1659+ CHAdeMO stations and likely over 25 or 30K cars w/CHAdeMO plugs (Leaf which has optional CHAdeMO has sold over 38K units worldwide).
     
    #9 cwerdna, Oct 26, 2012
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    We already have a Frankenstorm coming here, no fair Frankencopying!
    Here's where my minds at: I was wondering how I could slow down PiP recharging by a factor of 2 or 3 to minimize load on the house wires (not that I have a PiP).

    Drysider, I am not an EE (obviously) but the current flow is DC so I guess better than AC.
    Although, actually I did start out in EE my frosh year. Guess that makes me an FrankenEE.

    Let me get the Franken out of here.
     
    #10 wjtracy, Oct 26, 2012
  11. drysider

    drysider Active Member

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    It doesn't matter AC or DC, 90KW is not possible in a residential setting. You would need a 200 amp, 460V, 3phase AC service to get there. Having a connector that will handle 90KW is not the same as actually having 90KW to put through it.
     
    #11 drysider, Oct 27, 2012
  12. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    They mention the Spark specifically, which uses A123 cells (and in all likelihood still will, despite the bankruptcy). That pack can easily accommodate that charge rate without any ill effects.

    "Present generation batteries don't like to be charged for more than a few seconds at a rate faster than 1-2C.
    I don't know whose batteries you're referring to, but that's baby stuff for the A123 cells. 5C continuous is no problem. You can pulse them at 10C or even (much) greater, no big deal. You would not want to do this above about 80% SOC because you'll start to exceed 3.6V per cell and begin to plate Li inside the cell. THAT would result in a significant loss of calendar life over time.​
    dh​
     
    #12 wb9k, Oct 28, 2012
  13. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    True. However, automotive cells used by everyone other than Fisker (so far) like to be charged somewhat slower. I think the cells used in the Honda Fit EV may also support a higher fast charge rate.

    They don't recommend much more than 4C for continuous fast charge. Still, that's 2.5x the rate of other automotive cell chemistries. The downside is that they are less energy dense at a time when there is a big push for increased density.
     
    #13 Jeff N, Oct 28, 2012
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