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PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Jeff N, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    In the interest of science and the greater pursuit of good clean fun, devprius and I are exchanging wheels this week from Monday, January 7 until Friday, January 11. The formal changing of the keys ceremony took place yesterday during lunch. As an added benefit I got a rare opportunity to exercise my innate artistic abilities.

    7election.JPG



    I've owned and driven a classic 2001 Prius and an iconic 2004 Prius for the past dozen years and a combined 200,000 miles. I've owned and driven a 2011 Volt for just over 2 years and 39,000 miles. I've only driven a 3rd generation Prius or PiP around the block on a couple of occasions and yet I have followed the PiP developments fairly closely during the past couple of years.

    During that time I have formed assumptions and opinions based on my past experience and the experience of PiP owners here on PriusChat. It's now time to validate those ideas by actually driving the car for a few days.

    I'm following my usual commute route which is about 91 miles roundtrip in addition to the usual various side trips for lunch and shopping. I can sometimes work at home but this week I'll be driving into the office every day. I can fully charge at home in my garage and can typically get 4 hours of charge time at 120V at work. I sometimes get an additional charge opportunity in the evening on the way back home. I'm told I will have access to 240V charging at work within a few months.

    Devprius has a similar charging setup and his commute is almost as far but I'll let him get into those details. We both work at the same office campus in Silicon Valley.

    And there we go! We're off on our intrepid adventure.

    UPDATE: See the final results at PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo | Page 11 | PriusChat.
     
    cycledrum, F8L, John Hatchett and 4 others like this.
  2. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    Who pays to fill up the PiP at the end of the week?
     
  3. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That is awesome. It will be great to read both you and devprius experiences.
     
  4. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Similar to a rental car: we will return our cars with the same tank level that was there originally. We're paying for our own gas and electricity usage during the week.
     
  5. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    That's a shame. It could have been the friendly "wager".

    I hope you get your Volt back on Friday. :)
     
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I'm driving the same way I drive my Volt -- 55-57 mph on the highway mostly using cruise control in the slow lane and no unnecessary heating.

    Temperatures so far have been in the upper 40's but it is forcast to get 5-10F colder later in the week. There is no rain in the forecast this week but it was foggy this morning.

    I reset the trip counter in the parking lot at work before taking the keys.

    Here are my stats so far:

    10.5 miles EV last night driving home

    51.0 miles hybrid

    Total segment of 61.5 miles

    Total displayed combined mpg of 74 mpg.


    11.9 miles EV this morning driving to work

    34.5 miles hybrid

    Total segment of 46.4 miles

    ----------

    Total displayed combined (EV plus gas) mpg for last night and this morning is 82 mpg.

    I noted that I had 62 hybrid miles as the integer gasoline counter flipped over from 0 to 1.
     
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Are you tracking kWh consumption as well? EV Driving Ratio screen would track it, hope you reset one of the screen.
     
  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Yes. We reset all the relevant counters as far as I know. I'm still learning and making sense out of the display screens.

    Last night it showed 2 kWh when I got home and it showed 5 kWh when I arrived at work.

    I've got some elevation drop right as I leave home for around 600 feet over 2 miles of city streets. I glided down the initial part of that in neutral to avoid any issues with the ICE starting.
     
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  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    As far as I can tell, you are getting 122 MPGe on electric miles and 65 MPG on gas miles.

    Electric mile calculation:
    10.5 + 11.9 EV miles = 22.4 total EV miles.
    6.2 kWh (2 charges estimate including charging loss) / 22.4 miles = 0.277 kWh/mi
    33.7 kWh (a gallon equiv) / 0.277 = 122 MPGe

    Gas mile calculation:
    61.5 + 46.4 miles = 107.9 total miles (electric and gas)
    Overall MPG (electric miles included) = 82 MPG
    107.9 miles / 82 MPG = 1.3159 gallons consumed so far

    Total gas miles = 51 + 34.5 miles = 85.5 gas miles
    Gas efficiency = 85.5 miles / 1.3159 gallons = 65 MPG
     
  10. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    My initial driving impressions:

    All of my assumptions have validated so far. I figured I would get around 60 mpg in hybrid driving without any "EV-Boost". I guessed I would get 10-12 miles EV.

    The engine in the Prius sounds a bit "tinnier" or lightweight and high pitched than the Volt. If the gas engine must be running, I prefer the sound of the Prius engine.

    I also prefer the sound of the Prius hydraulic brake pressure pump for similar reasons.

    The Prius has better realtime power usage displays that make it easier to optimize regen behavior and predict engine startup in hybrid mode. I have a good instinct for this on the Volt but it would be nice to have better display information.

    On the other hand, the Volt seems to do a better job displaying actual realtime gasoline consumption down to the hundredths of a gallon (although updates are usually at the granularity of .03). Same for kWh used from the battery in 2012 Volt and later. The Prius display is overloaded and some important values are absurdly truncated or display only in whole integer numbers.

    I find the Prius brakes to be too grabby. The Volt braking in 'D' is maybe too soft and slow to react. I prefer the braking feel of the Volt in 'L' "gear" where the pedal effort is more reactive than 'D'.

    The Prius has better visibility to the side and going forward because the front pillars are a bit less obstructive.
     
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  11. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Those numbers look roughly right to me. Thanks! We'll see how things average out during the week.

    The EV efficiency is roughly equivalent to what I get driving the Volt where I get 125-135 MPGe by my calculations.

    The gas hybrid efficiency seems to be roughly 35% better in the Prius for my driving style. Lot's of opportunity for improvement by GM there.... On the other hand, in absolute terms, I'm averaging 46-47 hybrid mpg on the Volt which is about the same as a typical Prius driver zipping around at faster speeds.
     
  12. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Great thread.. test. Looking to hearing more. DevPrius, what's your first impressions?
     
  13. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    Time for my notes/impressions so far.

    My typical commute to work is about 93 miles, similar to Jeff's in terms of length. I believe that I have more elevation changes than he does. I tend to go with the prevailing speed of traffic, so I'm typically driving at 65 to 70 MPH. My PiP lately has been averaging between 52 and 55 MPG per tank, and it has been giving me an EV estimate of 9.1 miles, which is down from the typical 57 to 61 MPG and 10.3 to 10.7 EV range that I had in the summer. Given that my 2005 Prius typically got 42 to 44 MPG per tank, I'm pretty pleased with the overall improvement in MPG that I got by buying the PiP. No regrets here at all.

    I wasn't able to do my normal commute this morning, so I can't provide directly useful numbers. Hopefully tomorrow,
    though I have a dentist appointment first thing in the morning, so that may complicate things. Might have to wait until thursday for a direct comparison.

    I live on a fairly steep hill. Getting up that hill always requires the ICE in the PiP to come on. Though it's only about a 1/4 to 1/2 mile up, I always lose an estimated 1 to 2 EV miles in the PiP. It doesn't matter if I'm in EV or HV mode at the time. I gain most of that back once I reach the top of the hill and head back down to the highway. The PiP typically has 10 miles of EV when I start out (though with winter, it's been more like 9). This morning the Volt started out with 41 miles of EV. By the time I got to the top of that same hill, it had dropped to 37 miles. I didn't notice the EV miles going back up once I hit the bottom of the hill.

    Related to that, I have another hill that I have to descend when I come home. In the PiP, I will typically regen about 1.7 to 2.2 miles of EV range just coming down that hill. In the Volt, the display didn't update to reflect any regen range gained. Once it seems to switch to gas mode, it doesn't seem to switch back to EV mode, or the dash display in front of the steering wheel doesn't. There is a power-flow screen that states whether you are using battery, engine, or both, or if you are in regen. I did notice that when I got to the bottom of the hill, it stated I was using battery and not the engine. With the PiP it's pretty obvious if I'm back in EV mode, or if I have it available. In the Volt, not so obvious.

    Driving impressions so far: the Volt's acceleration kicks butt big time. Whether I was in EV mode or gas-mode, there
    was plenty of acceleration available. As Jeff noted, the visibility in the Prius is better due to the placement and thickness of the door pillars. Handling seems fine. Again, as Jeff noted (and my wife), the brakes in the Prius are way more grabby.

    I love the gorgeous high-res displays that the Volt has. Some of the information displayed is better. Jeff noted some of the same deficiencies in the PiP that drive me nuts as well.

    I don't like the placement of the dash controls for the radio/nav/climate systems. It seems excessively busy and confusing. This may just be due to me not being used to it. It's not better or worse than the PiP, it's just different. The car's bluetooth handsfree system works fine. I had no problem pairing my phone, and calls so far (1 to Jeff) were audible and clear. Sadly, you can't do bluetooth audio streaming in Jeff's 2011 Volt. Apparently the newer Volt's do offer it.

    I have not yet tried to run the car exclusively in EV mode, nor have I tried to run it without the use the climate control system. I tend to prefer to be comfortable and safe, so I'll use the seat heaters, defrosters, heater and A/C systems as necessary. This reduces my overall EV range (in both cars, for that matter). But my comfort and safety is more important to me.

    So far I'm having fun with this car swap. The only downside to all this is the lack of HOV lane access. But I can alter my commute (times and routes) so that the loss of that privilege is minimized. Besides, it's all in the pursuit of knowledge.
     
  14. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    After this little experiment is over, I'm planning on renting a RAV4 EV for a few days. My local dealership has one or two available for rent. Need to find out how much, but I think it would be well worth doing. Given the fact that our minivan has to go in for some major servicing, and they may need it for a couple of days, this would be the perfect opportunity to do so.
     
  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Update....

    I was able to get a full charge at work before heading out to do an errand that took roughly 13 miles of driving on city streets. I think I got 12.3 miles of EV before doing the last mile or so on gas.

    In the afternoon there was too much competition for the 120V outlet so I wasn't able to recharge again at work. I drove on gas to a nearby town with free public charging and got dinner and a full charge on my way home.

    The final segment was 36 miles home with 12.3 miles EV. By my calculation, I got 60 mpg in hybrid mode.

    Overall, I've done 27% EV miles since I got the car for a total of 171.0 miles and 87 mpg combined EV and gas mileage. My EV efficiency seems to be around 25 kWh / 100 miles including charging overhead.
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Another driving impression I noticed is the PiP doesn't seem to have much, if any, "hill assist". It seems to roll backwards down a hill if I'm stopped and let up on the brake to drive away.

    That surprised me a bit. The Volt has excellent "hill assist". I can be stopped on a sharp incline and let up on the brakes and the car won't roll back at all until the assist times out after several seconds. I can lift off the brake and press the accelerator and smoothly drive away.

    I'll have to try parallel parking on a steep street to see how that works. My 2004 Prius was good at that. The Volt is trickier because it can sometimes want to accelerate too much and it can be tricky to make short maneuvers in tight parking spaces. The hill assist helps with the Volt but only after you learn to trust it.
     
  17. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Hill assist in Prius is triggered by pressing the brake pedal really hard, some lights will come on, I never use it ... I believe that PiP is the same as normal prius in this regard.
     
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  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yep. It's a feature that was new to Gen 3.
     
  19. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I can confirm that PiP has hill assist. You just need to press the brake pedal pretty much all the way and a light will come on to let you know that it has been activated.
     
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Has that happened before? That must be stressful for the Leaf owners. 87 MPG with only 27% EV is really good.