Finally Did It ...

If you would like to exaggerate the EV range to 20 miles, then the MPGe is 200. We all know that it's not easy to get 20 mile range all the time.

 

I think you meant MPGe only for the electric miles. If PiP gets 14 miles per charge, that's 149 MPGe with 15% charging loss included. Regardless of the price of electricity, PiP tracks the kWh it consumed.

Gas miles are the other half that should be considered. We add both fuels and come up with the composite MPGe for the overall efficiency. See the thread below.

Top 10 MPGe | PriusChat

 

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Only the EV miles. The OP said he is getting 500 mpg without using the gas engine too much. I was just saying there is no way he could get 500 mpg unless he is getting free electricity.

 

Well... miles per unit of currency, maybe. MPGe is a measure of efficiency that normalizes various types of energy with the amount of energy in a gallon of gas (1 gallon = 33.7 kWh). Meaning, it has nothing to do with cost, only efficiency. Free (for you) electricity doesn't change the efficiency, only the cost in your pocketbook.

There's also their new eGallon scheme, but that one compares cost, not efficiency. (What I'm saying here is MPGe is not miles per e-gallon, it's miles per gallon equivalent)

 

Thanks for clearing that up. If MPGe has nothing to do with cost, then definitely there is no way the OP could get 500 mpge from a PiP.

 

The OP did not claim to get 500 MPGe. He said that usually on this commute (with ICE starting) he is getting 500 MPG which is just miles driven divided by actual gallons consumed (without counting the electricity used).
In the particular trip of the first post he was doing about 222 MPGe (21.1 miles for about 3.2 kWh from wall).

 

He said 500 MPG, not MPGe.

If he used 0.0422 gallons on his 21.1 miles commute, he would get 500 MPG. Of course, that's with a full charge boosted.

The correct way to calculate his efficiency is to get the equivalent gallon of a full charge. 3.2 kWh / 33.7 kWh = 0.095 gallons.

21.1 miles / 0.137 gallon(e) = 154 MPGe. This figure takes account of energy in both gas and electric. I am assuming that he used up all EV miles. If he does not, it should be higher.

500 MPG takes account of only the gasoline. This is what Volt likes to display for the "feel good" purpose. When a Volt owner brags about his triple digits MPG, it is likely this figure. I think is misleading and there is nothing to feel good about.

 

I understand and get the point. Using 0.0422 gallons in 21.1 miles commute with a plugin hybrid is excellent.

If you get 50 MPG during the gas engine warmup, 0.0422 gallon would cover 2.1 miles. You still cover 19 miles in EV.

Perfect is not the enemy of excellent.

 

Your personal feeling good is well understood.
However, I assume your your electricity is not isolated from your local grid. So, on a national basis as long as the majority of electricity comes from non-renewable sources - it is only wise to use some gasoline in order to improve the efficiency of a plug-in vehicle.

 

can we please not have this discussion again. the cleanliness or not of the national grid is irrelevant to me when the cleanliness of the electricity that i use at my home and the charging stations in my area is leaps and bounds better.

 

There are two sources of emission. 1) From manufacturing the vehicle and 2) from the fuel to operate.

Even with cleaner California electricity, Leaf will take 205k miles to pay back the carbon footprint debt from manufacturing big battery and motor. Smaller battery is better for the entire life cycle emission and efficiency.

A very heavy compact plugin like Volt will never break even with a comparable hybrid.

Gas engine needs regular excercise. Gas tank needs regular replenishment. Cold weather demands cabin heat and the best way is from the onboard gas. A well designed hybrid (also plugin) takes advantage of both power sources.

 

That's easy...just find your way to Escherville.

Mike

 

That's true...there has to be quite a bit of waste from making a ICE.

 

Plug in Prius - Most Environmentally Friendly Vehicle in Study | PriusChat

I just read it again, 205k miles break even is using the average electric mix. Using the California mix, Leaf surpasses a regular Prius at 100k miles. See page 13 in the report.

At 100k miles, PiP is the cleanest plugin in CA. Fit EV is 2nd and Leaf 3rd. It is not clear if Leaf will surpass or break even with PiP with additional miles. Leaf's battery warranty is 100k miles -- that was extended from 60k miles.

 

A bigger waste if ICE is rarely used. 50% EV and 50% Gas is ideal for a vehicle that has both power source onboard.

 

So you are saying the closer you get to 100% EV the more waste a plug in hybrid becomes when you could probably get by with just an EV, such as a Leaf? But if you are getting closer to 0% EV than it obviously makes more sense to go with a regular hybrid? Am I understanding you right?

 

Your clean electricity source is interconnected to your local grid, I suppose, if you are using less of it then your neighbor will use more. If your (clean) local grid has excess it will transfer it to neighbor grids making them a bit cleaner. Same for your state. It's all interconnected, so national average is relevant. That the point I tried to make.