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rough @ idle and acceleration after Throttle body cleaning.....!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bshef, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Few weeks ago.....Prius was showing the P0505 code ....
    Mechanic, ran diagnostics and determined it was dirty TB.
    Cleaned TB.....cleared the code
    (inspected PCV...hoses).

    When I initially picked it up it was reving very high....so he hooked it back up to the scanner and did some type of "reset" for the idle (this cleared most some computer settings...back-up beep, radio stations, etc...)
    Everything ran fine for past 3 weeks...

    Just last night..... started running rough again.
    What I noticed this morning ...
    Started it up and it ran very rough til the auto shutdown after warmup (no warning lights).
    Then....when I started driving slowly out of the lot...it ran "rough upon acceleration"......
    Then fine at cruising speed.
    Same behavior at every light....rough acceleration.... fine once up to speed.

    Just started it up again and same behavior.....(does not die...just very rough).
    Called mechanic...of course I have to go see him and his scanner again.

    Any thoughts what to look for ?

    Thanks
     
  2. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    oh....
    95k miles....
    and in addition to the above work, he also replaced the leaky water pump (added new coolant) and put a new belt on.
     
  3. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Also wondering if this shuddering behavior is consistent with a fuel pump going out...?
    have had a intermittent "whirring" noise (like a dry pump) coming from just behind the drivers side fire wall area of the engine compartment.
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Are any warning lights on?? If so pls take a sharp photo and post.
    That probably is the brake actuator pump which runs from time to time. You can force the pump to run by repeatedly depressing the brake pedal.

    The fuel pump is located within the fuel tank.
     
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  5. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Ah...brake actuator pump.... Thanks for that Patrick.
    Warning light.... Yes!
    CE light came on just today.
    At the mechanic shop now...
    Will post follow up when he runs diagnostic.
    ......
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Since the check engine light is on, a DTC will have been logged. If DTC P0505 has been logged again, look for a vacuum leak such as a loose PCV hose, missing engine oil dipstick, or a loose / missing engine oil cap.

    If there are no vacuum leaks, then since the throttle body was already cleaned, your mechanic may suggest replacement of the throttle motor. That would be a reasonable next step.
     
  7. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    It registered 300 series codes that indicates misfires.
    He's going to check plugs then go from there [​IMG]
    ......
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Did it rain in your area the other night and if so was the Prius parked outside?

    Maybe some water got into one or more spark plug wells, thus causing the sudden engine misfire.
     
  9. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Hi Patrick,
    No rain....
    I read some of the old misfire post and took note of the punch list of possibilities.
    -No water... Rain
    -Oil seems at acceptable lower than full level.
    -plugs should still be adequate at 95k miles however I did have a new set of plugs so those will be installed to rule out that possibility......
    -he'll then check for vacuum leaks and the other possible causes.
    I'll post his findings after he calls tomorrow.


    ......
     
  10. Joe 26

    Joe 26 Member

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    Have your mechanic closely inspect the plug boots for signs of arcing.
     
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  11. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Done...
    Found oil in #1 cylinder. (cleaned that out).
    Inspected ignitor pack connector ends and seals.
    Installed new plugs.

    He mentioned possibly oil got into #1 cylinder because of close proximity to oil fill tube.
    I'll report back if this doesn't hold up and the misfire re-occurs.
     
  12. Zedhomme

    Zedhomme Member

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    I apologize for this long post, but you had a lot of things done at one time.
    If you're not the original owner, the first thing I'd do is got to www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/recalls
    Plug in your VIN and see what recalls have been done and which are outstanding. Check the inverter water pump status. There was a Limited Service Campaign (A0N) to replace them on 2004-2007 Prius. See later in post.
    P0505 is an idle Control System Malfunction, so one guess is around the throttle body.
    Since so many things were probably disconnected to clean the throttle body, and it was good for 3 weeks, I'd check the following things, related to each thing you mentioned, to make sure they're reconnected right:
    Make sure the PCV hose is connected correctly on both ends and nothing else was dislodged. It's a tight fit. I replaced mine at 110,000 miles. It was still good, but if you have it off and you have a $12 part you replace it.

    THIS NEXT ONE IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR ROUGH ENGINE RUNNING!!! THE CE LIGHT DOES COME ON.
    P1320 - Ignition Coil No. 5 harness is open or shorted
    - Ignition Coil No. 5 circuit poor electrical connection
    - Faulty Ignition Coil No. 5
    - Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM)
    so check the ignition coils and harness. If he disconnected and moved them to do the PCV, he may have either damaged something or a connection is loose.

    As far as the throttle body cleaning, check these:
    Check the MAF Meter to make sure no contamination got into it when the guy was cleaning your throttle body. It is very sensitive to contamination in its air gap. DTCs for the MAF are P0101-P0103.
    It's a longshot, but a dying 12-volt battery can affect the MAF communication with the ECM too and many other things.
    Also check the MAF Connector Wire Harness,
    No. 2 Ventilation Hose,
    No. 1 Fuel Vapor Feed Hose,
    Throttle Control Motor Connector,
    Throttle Position Sensor Connector. All those things attach to the throttle body and may not have been securely reattached.

    Since he replaced the mechanical engine water pump, Prius gets air lock easily. Check your engine coolant level. Turn the heater temp to high and let the engine warm up until the thermostat opens (If it will run). Let it cool down, then check the coolant level, not just in the reserve tank, take the radiator support cover off and check in the radiator cap. If it's low, open the 6mm hex bleed valve in the opening on the opposite top end of radiator and add until coolant comes out, squeezing the radiator hose as you're filling. Prius is a bear to bleed the engine coolant.

    The whirring could be your inverter or inverter water pump. The engine coolant and inverter coolant are separate systems in the radiator. The engine coolant is in the upper 2/3 and the inverter coolant in the lower 1/3.
    The inverter water pump, if it wasn't already replaced under the LSC A0N, could be going bad. The transaxle/inverter also has the Automatic Transmission Fluid for your car. At 95,000, you're due to replace both inverter ATF and coolant. Use only Toyota Super Long Life Coolant and ATF WS. Both the inverter coolant and ATF are pretty simple procedures if you're a do-it-yourselfer. Lots of videos out there. Watch a couple and find one that looks like he knows what he's doing.
     
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  13. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Zedhomme.....
    Thanks for taking the time to post all that info....
    I appreciate all your knowledge.

    All seems good so far....
    having driven for about 30 miles .......the misfires and codes seem to be gone.
    Fingers crossed.
     
  14. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    CRAP......!
    (after a bit of denial)
    IT'S BACK.
    All seemed well for a couple days.....(denial)...
    then started noticing slight hesitation on acceleration & again at idle. (slight miss)

    I did quick visual scan of connections & found nothing.
    Think I'll print out some of the suggestions posted here and take them to my tech.

    Last time we talked he mentioned if new plugs don't work...he was thinking a new TB was next step....
    I did find a used TB w/ 78k miles for $160 (shipped) from that Denver Prius boneyard guy.

    Any suggestions welcomed.....
    as always ...Thanks
     
  15. Zedhomme

    Zedhomme Member

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    Another question about the oil in "cylinder #1 you mentioned. Was it just in the plug well or was the plug itself fouled with oil from oil actually in the cylinder? Is it back now that the rough running started again. I thinking if it was a quick fix it was just in the plug well, but someone had to be really careless to get oil in there adding oil and the dipstick is not even close. Oil leaking into the cylinder itself could cause those rough running symptoms and may be a deeper problem with seals or head gasket. I'm not that experienced in that area with Prius, so someone who is should chime in. I know on my son's old Accord there were oil seals on top and also on the bottom side of the rocker assembly that had gone bad at 160,000 miles. and allowed oil into the plug wells, but from the diagrams I don't see any such seals in the Prius.
     
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  16. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    Thanks Zed.....
    I'll ask these questions when I discuss with him.
    I'm also printing out your suggestions for him.
    Yeh.....I done the oil myself since day one and have a nice funnel and don't believe I've ever spilled anything....
    I'm hoping any oil that got in there was from an overfill as has been mentioned here by others.

    My car is only at 95k miles and I was planning on getting about 2 to 3 times more life out of this vehicle.
     
  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Couple of posters found hairline cracks in the ignitor boots. Really hard to see apparently.Have to pull on the boot and stretch it to see.
    8 year old car not unreasonable to replace all the ignitor boots. Misfires are tough. Usually ignition on this car. Doubt its the TB.

    Btw, I believe there is a tsb out for your year concerning replacement of the water dam gasket. The seal/gasket that prevents water from overflowing the dam at the bottom of the windshield and dripping onto the cylinder head and getting in the sparkplug wells and shorting out the plug.
    It consists of a new gasket and sealant. Search around.

    Lusciousgarage.com discusses it on there many blogs.
     
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  18. bshef

    bshef Active Member

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    I did a search for ignitor boots and found a couple post talking about this but did not locate any "part" that I would purchase to replace old/cracked boots....

    What is the fix If they don't offer a new part for this?
    Thanks

    pulled my hair out over misfiring codes | PriusChat
     
  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    The whole ignitor must be replaced. The boot and ignitor are an assembly.
    Check Champion online.

    I do know if I had to replace them I would only use genuine Toyota parts not parts store boots.
     
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  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    $79 each online. Thats the entire ignitor & boot assy. You may have a bad ignitor too.

    Only way to really check this is to see which cyl is misfiring with TS and then move that ignitor to another cyl and see if it moves with it.
    But thats alot of work and time. Like I said not unreasonable to replace them all at your year anyway.

    Could have a cracked intake mani. Car ever been in a front end accident?
     
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