Does the Prius have a transmission?

Volt CVT compared/contrasted with Prius eCVT (from MOTOR TREND article):

 

(I am taking Ford/Toyota at their word, those more cynical may not)

You seem to be thinking that their is a technical reason for the different designs of the transaxle. Ford did independent R&D and invented a transaxle so close to Toyota's that they licensed Toyota's patent rather than get in a legal battle. To this date, detractors claim Ford copied Toyota, even though the lead times to design a car make this improbable. GM seems to have altered Toyota's design enough to avoid claims of copying. It is quite a bit more complex, and has claimed efficiencies over 70 MPH. However, my theory is that GM was motivated not to build a me-too hybrid, so they altered design features and minimized (to the point of duplicity) it's similarities to other hybrids.


Unbolting the Chevy Volt to See How it Ticks - Motor Trend

 

This picture illustrates the evolution of the old common limited-slip rear-axle differential into the new planetary-CVT concept similar to what's used in the eCVT:



• source: Understanding Planetary Gears

 

Correct, Toyota's innovation was NOT mechanical, but adding and consuming power at all of points 1, 2, and 4 in the rightmost diagram. Previous Planetary gearset usage had one or more of the points 1,2,3,4 fixed, and only flowed power though a singe input and out a single output. In the old LSD, all engine power enters in 4 and exits via 1 and 2.

 

As was once said, "...it's like holding onto an Octopus: it depends upon which legs you ARE holding and which ones your AREN'T holding." (wink,wink)

 

Gents,
I'm glad this technical discussion has progressed, even though some have called it "crap" and "please stop".
Those who don't like threads like this should find the "cheerleading/brand loyalty" threads.

It was when I realized how elegant and simple the Prius eCVT was that I decided to sell my TDI and I bought a Gen3 Prius. I was always wary of automatic transmissions but the eCVT is not that. It is an amazing hybrid car!
I had a Gen1 Honda Insight before the TDI. I'm into fuel efficient cars.

When I realized I could afford a new '13 Volt ($23.6k), I sold the Gen3 ($15k).

The Volt is a full blown EV. I can go a long time without gas. And when I'm on a road trip I live with 38-40 mpg, a more than fair trade off, IMO. But that's at +5 mph the posted.
Depending on what the recipe of your local electricity is the Volt can be very 'Green'.
The EV miles are like getting a 70% gas coupon, even better for me because I charge at work.
Lutz wanted "A Leap in Technology" over the Prius. I think that it is. I no longer have monthly gas bills.

The transaxles are the heart of both of these cars and who knows where the actual finished designs came from, the supplier or the car manufacturer.

The PiP is a hybrid that can act like an EV if: you don't accelerate too hard, go too fast or want heat in the winter and only need ~11 miles of <62 MPH EV miles.
One of the MG's is consuming power not to propel the car, but to keep the engine stopped.
The first PiP's were homebuilts, then Toyota got on the bandwagon.

That last paragraph is 'IMO'. Sorry if it offends.

 

Ironically, that EV purity statement was cheerleading.

It was the "redline" claim which stirred the pot. After having provided information showing that was incorrect, the claim continued to be spread anyway. Even the video itself was referred to as support of the false. What purpose could misrepresentation like that serve? You'll get burned by it eventually.

Of course, the arguing of semantics isn't exactly a win either. Mainstream consumers certainly don't care what a technology is called. Heck, they don't care about operational detail either.

If they cannot afford it, not much else matters. Cost engineering is the big challenge, a fact commonly disregarded in technical discussions, often distracted by cheerleading & misrepresentation.

 

Since this is a technical discussion, you are wrong technically. MG1 is rotating freely and not consuming any electricity. Sure, there will be friction loss from the bearing but it is neglectable.

Especially compared to the energy loss from Volt ICE dead weight. Volt has oversized MGs that has additional loss as well. This compact 4 seated weights more than a SUV!

As pointed out in the other thread, PiP is more efficient than Volt in EV mode in the same EPA highway cycle (not US01).

 

Addressing the "right size" aspect of Volt design certainly brings about passionate reaction. Point out the MG size/power for Leaf and Fusion-Energi. Compare to Volt. See the issue? Enthusiasts were not at all happy when I pointed out the electric potential for Camry-hybrid either.

In other words, it goes beyond just technical. Need must be included too. More isn't necessarily better.

 

john17,

Where is there that 62mph limit coming from on the PiP? Is there current flow to MG1 when in EV, or does it "rotate freely"? Only your Torque app can tell. (I read the limit was MG1 reaching redline)

Yes, that chunk of cast iron in the front of the Volt is a drag,,, but when needed, you can go anywhere at anytime compared to a BEV. (Oversize MG's? How does that affect efficiency? I wish they were bigger ! Think Spark EV)
What about the battery's Thermal Management System the Volt has compared to the fan that blows cabin air in the PiP? Is that a drag on the weight of the car?
What about the lack of maintenance required when 73% of your miles are EV?
(I did an early oil change at 2500 GAS miles. I'm done with that work for a long, long time now !!)

If you are OK with a slow EV for ~11 miles, fine. Most commuters need more. I can see where the PiP would suit some people that don't need heat in the winter and TMS for the battery in the summer. (The lack of TMS makes the 'Wall to Wheels' EV efficiency look better on the PiP. What about 'Battery to Wheels'?)

If you want a fast, quiet, low C/G, sporty EV that let's you drive like you had a 70% off gas coupon (for the first ~40 miles), you should at least consider an American Made EREV. (The highest tech car on the road, IMO.)

Go on, take a test drive so you know what GM has to offer.
It truly is a "Leap in Technology". (IMO)

 

For some *odd* reason this adulterated-revision of a Childrens Nursery Rhyme seems appropriate:

"The Bird in the hand, is the Best in the land..." (...translation: MY XYZ is better than YOUR ZYX ).

 

Weight is bad, regardless of whether it's ICE, EV, or hybrid. Weight kills both acceleration and milage, and necessitates higher HP motive source(s). About the ONLY thing it doesn't 'kill' is crash safety...ie: TANK vs. Yugo or tin-can.

What we need is a Neutrino-like car...basically NO weight!

 

There it is again.

My commute this morning was 16.7 miles. 9 of that was at 70 mph. The result was 121 MPG.

 

My commute was 25 miles, 70-75 mph 85% of the way, NO GAS usage. Display shows +250 MPG, stupid display.
Maybe $0.60 worth of home electricity. Top up at work for a free commute home.
No using engine life, oil life, only consuming tires !!! (Will there be a payback from my old fashioned Prius?)
Sporty handling! Very quiet ride! Did someone mention 'crash safety' ratings?

 

Take your own advice.

 

But,, we're just comparing technical specs and observed performance for our cars with transaxles from the same supplier, right?

Each one serves a niche, right?

 

Yes, the same supplier from Japan.

Fundamental difference in how it works is what you don't get it or unable to accept/appreciate.

PiP single speed "transmission" use electricity for City cycle and gas for Highway cycle. You can think of it as low and high "gears" but in PiP case, it is switching fuels, not gears. Electric motor is low gear and Atkinson ICE is geared for high.

It is not only the speed. Power demand will also trigger fuel switching and even blending. That mixing is what creates CVT effect. Electricity is used to achieve so it is eCVT. PiP has much stronger (than regular Prius) eCVT due to bigger battery enabling higher EV speed (62 vs 25mph) and power (38 vs 15kW).

You have a problem with PiP gas engine starting. Don't worry, it is per design and you are seeing eCVT in action. Preventing ICE from starting is like driving only in 1st gear.

Volt is a different animal as it has two mechanical gears in both EV mode and HV mode. Modes are switched with clutches where PiP has no clutch.

 

That's the gas consumption. You consumed very little gas (you seem very proud of this) but a lot of electricity.

Let me ask you this. Do you know your fuel economy?

To answer that, you need to know the difference between gas consumption and fuel economy.

They used to mean the same in single fuel gas cars but NOT ANYMORE with plugin hybrids with two fuels.

To get the fuel economy of your plugin hybrid, you will need four basic numbers.

- Gas gallon
- Miles driven with gas
- kWh electricity
- Miles driven with electricity

Without knowing them, you are clueless on your fuel economy. Just looking at big MPG displayed on the screen is as you said, stupid.

Here is my first year average with PiP. 132 MPGe on electricity and 56 MPG on gas. Combined 75 MPGe.