4th generation coming 2015!

I don't think so - when the battery indicator gets down to the purple bars after a long uphill climb, the engine charges the battery and you don't get to use the electric engine until you get out of the purple zone (3 bars?). With my gen III Prius, I've never seen the battery indicator turn purple, nor have I ever lost power from the electric motor. Maybe my car was defective? Anyone else with a Gen II notice that you'd have to get in the slow truck lane going 40 mph while climbing for a long time causing the famed purple battery bar?

 

I drove a G2 Prius for 10 years and I now drive a G3 Prius vagon.

This is a useful set to compare because the increased engine size in the vagon is offset by the increased weight. There is no doubt at all in our experience that the vagon has far fewer episodes of depleted battery and low power operation. At least to me, the reason(s) are obscure and likely multiple. Some possibilities:

1. Effect of the reduction gear
2. Control law changes.
3. The 1.8L engine has an extended SFC range where it is highly efficient and thus does not require traction battery support
4. The easily recognizable drop in power when the traction battery went into the purple zone in the G2 was as much from a small engine as it was due to shunting ICE power to the battery. I don't think the G3 does that mandatory recharge while the driver demand for power is high.

Anecdotally, we lived in the Albuquerque foothills and would often drive the G2 into the valley, about a 1000 foot drop in elevation over 5 miles. On the way back (up) my wife would routinely enter the battery purple zone and experience the low power scenario. I learned to avoid the problem by being aggressive with the fuel pedal early in the climb to reach the top speed I wanted, and then I was able to take it (relatively) easy on the ICE and not require much additional battery draw. Only a set of red lights could foil me.

I reasoned at the time that since the battery output was limited to 20 kW maximum, by leaning into the fuel pedal early I was forcing the car to use a higher fraction of ICE than it would have with its usual control laws had I accelerated gently.

 

Didn't own the Gen 2 but in Gen 3 both the battery and ICE are used only at full throttle when the engine is screaming at 5,000+ rpm. You would really have to abuse the car to drain the battery in an uphill climb. Maybe in that regard the Gen 2 was different and also used the battery power under lighter throttle?

As for the battery tech, it must cope with high power to capacity ratio (10-20 C). A normal li-ion battery will not deal well with those high C values, those li-ion batteries in Prius+ and PiP are not your "normal" cheap cell phone or laptop batteries that Tesla can use in their cars. High power li-ion batteries are A123, I doubt those are as cheap as NiMh.

For a efficient hybrid the most important factor is power rating and charge/discharge efficiency. Capacity comes as a collateral to rated power, if supercaps would be used something like 200 Wh of capacity would be enough, for a normal road driving conditions. It's the same with memory buffer in PC, when you come to a certain size there is really a small benefit to go even higher.

 

With my 04 I can climb a 7% grade at 60mph at over 11,000 feet of altitude with a car full of people and stuff after the battery is totally depleted.

 

Yes I do agree with what you have posted about my comment on "falling behind" from the perspective you explained above. Let me be more clear what I was trying to get accross. Prius is the number one selling hybrid out there. It is reasonably priced and offers the best value presently over all its competition. In my mind I am not comparing a Prius to a Tesla which is priced out of most Prius shoppers reach. When I say falling behind, I mean in the next 18 months while we patiently wait for the next generation Prius to be released, there coud be many buying choices from the competiton that offer equal or better fuel economy that draw "wouldbe" Prius customers away from Toyota . 18 months is a long period of time for Toyotas competition to catch up and potetialy knock Prius off the top in sales and drastically reduce their market share. I am on my second Prius and I want a third, but because of this delay I have been thinking of looking into a few other possibilities on my next car purchase. There are a few regular gasoline and diesel cars that have made great improvements in fuel economy and may even improve in the next 18 months. I am ready to buy now!! The question is for myself is ..I am willing to wait 18 months? Are you willing to wait? I am going to wait 18 months for now unless something else comes around that blows my socks off.

 

Me too.

 

Despite all the noise, no non-hybrid car reaches 40 mpg EPA combined. Improved highway economy is one thing, improved city fuel economy is a much harder nut to crack.

 

Answer: higher power regeneration/recovery efficiency and rates!

 

In a non-hybrid car ?

 

GM'S "semi-hybrid" used a motor/generator ALTERNATOR assembly which can both GENERATE (for storage) and USE electrical energy recovered during deceleration and braking...and 'add' power when useful...if the computer programming is similar to Toyota's use in Prius.

It's just a bolt-on item, albeit with a VERY smart Regulator.

 

Macro Economics show a different perspective. For Toyota to sell more Prius, the competition must first catch up. Put another way, a reduction of marketshare in the short-term can contribute to growth of marketshare in the long-term, since expansion isn't possible in isolation. There's a plateau to overcome which requires the cooperation of others.

The problem is the consumer base cannot expand until the other automakers offer something actually competitive. Continuing to stand alone holds back acceptance. It's counter-intuitive, but that's how some aspects of business work. For the entire market to grow (more hybrids, less traditional vehicles), there must be first something in addition to Prius stirring interest of ordinary consumers... which means losing some sales.

A simple survey of mainstream attitude toward hybrids in general makes that quite obvious. Heck, even here on this forum we see the problem play out on a regular basis. Just look at how often a "payback" message is posted. After all these years, you'd expect progress beyond that first hurdle would have been made. But with such a tiny presence from the other hybrids, there's little to help reach new buyers.

In other words, competition is required.

 

Three guys in work have the new Mada 6 with SKYACTIV, I think it incorporates te I loop

 

SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY: brings you free wheeling automotive fun and a light touch on the environment we all love


It's standard on the 6 here I think, but ten again we only get the diesel

 

The highest combined EPA MPG I find for the Mazda3 is 35 mpg. Link please to the car that is 40+ MPG.

By the way, I found one in the Mitsu mirage.

 

From the reviews, the Aussies hate the i-ELOOP and their Mazdas has an on/off button. It was pretty funny reading their comments, although I wasn't prepared for it being that bad. Apparently when engine restarts, there is some serious shuddering. They like everything else about the car, except that.