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I am going solar

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by usbseawolf2000, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Knowing you won't have to pay for electric bill in that house, wouldn't you pay a little extra for that house?
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe. But mostly I'd see maintenance concerns, ongoing expenses, roofing complications.

    When we were house hunting, way back when, saw a few places with pools and/or hot tubs. My reaction then was similar: thanks but no thanks. Not in so many words, but there it is.

    Not trying to start debate, just my (admittedly uneducated) first reaction.
     
  3. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    In withing 2 months of installation I had a "out of range microinverter", my Solar contractor was notified and it was tweaked from a web browser from the manufacturer's Engineering dept.
    I was never inform what was out of range, probably and more likely, 60Hz frequency range.
    Since them, everything works 99.99%..
     
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  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    No doubt, there are hard to quantify money risks of putting PV on a roof. I'd feel a lot better about a roof installation that had been prepped at the time the house was built.

    True, but think of it this way: your neighbors are paying a carbon surcharge ;)
     
    #44 SageBrush, Feb 18, 2015
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  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I would agree with pools and hot tubs since they require maintenance. PV panels are maintenance free. If the inspection shows no issue with the roof, there is not much to it.

    There will be complication when you'll need to redo the roof down 15-30 years but you'll probably want to take the opportunity to replace the panels with more efficient ones as well.
     
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  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Seawolf was kind enough to exchange spreadsheets with me that show the finances of his upcoming PV array.
    We agree that the deal can be summarized thus (or maybe a bit sweeter):
    • He lets them put the array on his roof, and pays for any maintenance or repairs
    • In return, all the array's production is his, free of charge, for the life of the array
    It is a *great* deal, and I'm delighted he got it.
    There is, however, an aspect that bothers me. The deal is that good because of a combination of subsidies from the utility and the feds. In every other case of subsidy that I have ever analyzed, the end consumer gets only a small fraction of the total subsidy; the remainder is sucked up by all the other people involved in making the deal happen.

    A good example is the cash for clunkers (C4C) program from a few years ago. Very, very quickly, the dealerships raised their car prices in amounts that they know the consumer would receive via rebate. In effect, the dealerships collected most of (sometimes all) the C4C subsidy, not the car buyer.

    Another good example is CA subsidy of PV. During the years that it amounted to about $2 a watt, installed PV cost $5 a watt. Now that the subsidies are over for most people, PV costs about $3 a watt installed in CA. Another case of the consumer handing over the subsidy to someone a bit higher in the chain.

    Yet Seawolf in NJ was able to install PV for $3.2 a watt -- darn close to the unsubsidized cost in CA. Why is this NJ installer not taking a cut of the subsidy through a higher installation cost ??

    I really want to hope that Seawolf beat the odds and typical economic reality, but my nature says: either figure out why, or watch out for a deal that is too good to be true.
     
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  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I hope there is no catch that I missed.

    Utility is making $8.5k with interest and various fees in the loan. Installer will get $12.5k as the material is about half of $25k. It seems I got the most out of it?

    I shopped around and got many estimates. I picked Sea Bright Solar because I can trust the owner as I had the opportunity to work directly with him. One other company gave the same price but with Microinverter but I did not trust them.
     
  8. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I will give you few pointer for your PV system proposal and selected contractor:

    I hope that you will not have a PV panels installation with holes like this one, (picture from the same company you are contracting) vents can be moved.


    10.35-kW-Manchester-NJ-450x300.jpg

    Ask for the quantity of NABCEP certified installers they have on staff and actually shows up for work to the field, so far they advertise for only one. Certification tags?
    Have they made a structural roof load study and project for your install? I had an architect showing up at home and plans drawings.
    Do they have their own electrical contractor supervising their jobs?
    Do they use safety gear to work up on the roof planes?
    Will they store the proposed merchandise for installation in your property until install time?
    How about workers and installer's insurance on your property?
    Will they carry away all disposables after work every day?
    The list can keep growing very fast......
     
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  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^ good list.
    Seawolf's contractor has been in business since 2003, so that gives some confidence.

    I'd like to know who pays for labor and shipping if defective equipment.
    And I hope that at least 1/2 of the total cost is held (in escrow e.g.) until work is completed and online.
     
  10. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I paid my Solar Contractor all the contracted fees and payment assignments upon job completion minus $500.00 deposit at signature
     
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  11. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    USB...
    First off, congrats! I'm envious.
    One of our neighbors went (grid tied) solar last summer- I see his array every night on the way home from work :cry:

    Can you disclose the model number of the Canadian Solar panels you're using?

    How old was your roof/shingles?
     
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Rob, CS6P-260M with black frame. I bought this house last April and do not know the age of the roof.

    The condition looks good and the solar guy confirmed it. The panels also extend the life of roof, I have been told.

    $1k down already. $12k first payment before ordering material. The last $12k upon completion of the install.

    This is the final design of mine.

    Sitemap.JPG
     
    #52 usbseawolf2000, Feb 18, 2015
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  13. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Not to make you worry but prepared...... My solar contractor said the same but......
    Before my installation began, the Town of Babylon inspected the site and didn't approve the mechanical installation of the PV system because my roof was 7 years old, the equipment will be a minimum of 25 years above it. I presented the roofers invoice to demonstrate age of the install.
    No way Jose.......I had to remove and replace my shingles before the PV Install.
    But from Town to Town, to different State things may be different.
    I do not regret re-roofing, it is a peace of mind.
     
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  14. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^
    It is really quite amazing to think that PV can prosper in NJ and 109 degrees orientation :)

    Ridiculous
     
    #54 SageBrush, Feb 18, 2015
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  15. rxlawdude

    rxlawdude Active Member

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    In SoCal, Southern California Edison is rather militant about interconnections. They can take several weeks after final inspection to give "permission to operate (PTO)." I would not want to find out what happens if I connect the array to the grid while the array is generating more than household consumption. However, someone smarter than me pointed out that if the household consumption is high enough that no net power is going to the grid, SCE wouldn't have any way to know whose electrons were feeding the household.

    This is a major problem with utilities who consider home generation a nuisance; they have no incentive to give final operation permission and lots of $$$$incentive$$$$ to drag their feet. The President of my university is having this exact issue and his system was installed around the beginning of November. He's yet to generate a kWh.

    Here in SoCal, we have a clay tile roof on our 12 years young home. I was concerned about roofing issues due to the very delicate nature of clay tiles, so the company I went with is both a roofing and solar contractor. They know what they are doing. (I hope!) My city approved the mechanicals with minor changes.

    That array looks like a QR barcode. :)
     
    #55 rxlawdude, Feb 18, 2015
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  16. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    Thanks!
    From reading several forums over the past couple of years- Canadian Solar is a well regarded brand with reasonable pricing.
     
  17. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    I was under the impression that the utility had to grant permission to operate within 30 days (maybe business days). Or is that just a promise from my utility? I see something referring to 30 days for both PG&E and SCE, though. Obviously, there are exceptions (that they don't really tell you about) - like if they decide that their equipment can't handle the system you've installed, there are too many other solar systems in the area, or if your system is too oversized compared to your actual usage.
     
  18. rxlawdude

    rxlawdude Active Member

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    I'm not aware of any statutory or regulatory requirement they approve interconnection within 30 days. Most installers are seeing 6-8 week delays if paperwork isn't submitted in advance of installation, and even then...

    My contractor showed how to connect/disconnect and, interestingly, suggested leaving it connected today for "testing." As of 10am PT, with a significant marine layer, the inverter is kicking out 50% of the rated output. :)
     
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  19. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Cheers !!!! (y)
     
  20. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    #60 ny_rob, Feb 19, 2015
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