1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

What is the chief cause of head gasket failure on the gen 3

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Jayw13702, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    2,077
    295
    0
    Location:
    Ormond Beach,Fl.
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Is there a connection with head gasket failures and the banging during start up that people have experienced? If memory serves, Toyota's fix for the start up banging problem was a new intake manifold but that didn't fix the problem. I'm no expert but it seems to me that all the banging during start up would not be good for the head gasket. It happened to me a few times when I still lived up in Pa. until I learned how to avoid it. It sure seems like a big coincidence if the 2 things aren't connected.
     
    CR94, mjoo and Mendel Leisk like this.
  2. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    5,884
    3,486
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Drive it easy, let it warm up before driving and follow the recommendations on when to change all fluids.
     
  3. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    1,105
    1,311
    12
    Location:
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Between reading about the symptoms on PC, experience, and studying the engine - my opinion is that the banging is caused by five things. These are: oil accumulation in the intake, sludge in the intake manifold and EGR system blocking EGR which increases engine temperatures,.carbon deposits from oil burning leading to increased compression, bad head gasket leaking fluid into the cylinders, and bad gas.

    It's also common knowledge that knocking damages engines.


    Pixel XL ?
     
    danlatu and Mendel Leisk like this.
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,463
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    So pollution control systems in the main, Positive Crankcase Ventilation and Exhaust Gas Recirculation. In both case, combustion by-products being dumped back in. To put it really bluntly: the engine's eating it's shit...
     
    danlatu, scona, RMB and 3 others like this.
  5. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    1,105
    1,311
    12
    Location:
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Water and recirculated gasses aren't a problem. It's the oil mist and carbon particulates causing issues. If we could get systems that filter out the latter... That would be an ideal engine.

    Pixel XL ?
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The Oil Catch Can some have installed takes a lot of that out before it reaches the engine intake.
     
    Montgomery, danlatu and mjoo like this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,463
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    You're on that, right? ;)
     
    danlatu, scona and Raytheeagle like this.
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Not on my 13K mile 2017.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,474
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Never too early to start (y).
     
    danlatu and Mendel Leisk like this.
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I wish I could convince my son with his 50K + mile 2015 Prius v
     
    Montgomery and Raytheeagle like this.
  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,567
    1,595
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    From what a dealer mech tells me they do about 3 gen iii prii head gasket / oil burning related repairs a week where he works.

    He states the 1.8 just doesn’t have enough material in the right places (compared to the 1.5) and “erodes” its way into burning oil.

    Will see if I can pull his post and linky it.

    Sort of sounds similar to what happened when you bore out an engine too much.

    Ah well
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,463
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Yeah best let it build up for a while...
     
    Cosmo Tigato, scona and Prodigyplace like this.
  13. Tande

    Tande Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2006
    497
    299
    0
    Location:
    Mich.
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Has ANYONE figured/out WHAT actually MAKES the noise?? .......I would also suggest; you can't BANG two pieces of metal together without causing wear/damage to SOME degree.....:(
     
    paprius4030 and Mendel Leisk like this.
  14. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    2,077
    295
    0
    Location:
    Ormond Beach,Fl.
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I know it's been talked about to death, but I still believe it has to do with some unburned fuel left in the combustion chamber and it causes detonation upon the next restart. I say this because it sure sounds like detonation and it only occurs when the car is restarted after it has only run for a few seconds and was quickly shut off. I think some unburned fuel remains and that's what you hear and it makes me wonder if that has an effect on the head gasket. That's my 2 cents and that's probably what my opinion is worth LOL.:rolleyes:
     
  15. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    1,215
    1,164
    1
    Location:
    Coronado Island, California
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I think that the ERG system has been redesigned, perhaps putting this issue to rest in the GEN 4.
     
    mjoo and Prodigyplace like this.
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,463
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Agree, Exhaust Gas Recirculation cooler inlet is now downstream of the Catalytic Converter, and looks to have a bigger cross-section, but it is air-borne oil (and whatever) from the Positive Crankcase Ventilation filter that an Oil Catch Can is dealing with, trying to stop it before the intake manifold and combustion chamber.
     
    m.wynn, danlatu and Raytheeagle like this.
  17. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    533
    1,346
    2
    Location:
    maryland
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Oil/water condensation/fuel that is sitting @ the bottom of the intake plenum creates this knock on start up. Liquids are an incompressible solid. It originates from the pcv valve. When it is cold outside, engines tend to run rich until engine is at operating temp, creating higher levels of carbon monoxide. Water condensation forms on cool down in cold outside temps that is present in the crankcase. Fuel that is sitting in the combustion chamber tends to leak down into the crankcase. The oil catch can will help with cleaner combustion. Hence no knock to those that are using them. Both of our third gen prius have oil catch cans and none of them have had a cold start knock. The 2010 prius has had one for almost 3 years now. While the 2011 has had one for the last 8 months. It is the cold season and I am not surprised at all to see all these cold start problems along with head gasket issues. I love to see all the feedback. I am glad to see people are coming here to share their experience, It helps others to come to a conclusion on what is going on. Toyota has done nothing(n)
     
    Threej, RMB, Tande and 6 others like this.
  18. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    533
    1,346
    2
    Location:
    maryland
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Oil catch Can Thread

    Thanks Mjoo for posting this! Apart from my own data, others here have posted there results in using the catch can and how it eliminates knock. The more people post this will result in more people realizing how important it is to have a catch can. If you google catch can or youtube it, you will see that these things are on a lot of cars. Including OEM from different manufacturers. It is important to check the catch can more often in cold weather and empty it. Or it will not work. I say often because some of us drive 100-2000 miles + per week. In cold climates, people are more inclined to idle their cars putting more wear and tear on the motor oil. So 10k oci may not be a good idea in cold climate, uphill drag racing, drifting etc.
     
    qettyz likes this.
  19. reinerh

    reinerh Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    20
    6
    0
    Location:
    port charlotte
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    yeah this makes sense.

    one other issue might be engine coolant turned to acid, its very important to change that at around 100k or so.

    detonation due to oil, neh it has sensors for that to retard timing if it need to be. but high heat of course can kill a head gasket, like an overheat.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,463
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I'd put my money on post #23; good list of "usual suspects".
     
    Cosmo Tigato likes this.