What is the chief cause of head gasket failure on the gen 3

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Jayw13702, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    Is there a connection with head gasket failures and the banging during start up that people have experienced? If memory serves, Toyota's fix for the start up banging problem was a new intake manifold but that didn't fix the problem. I'm no expert but it seems to me that all the banging during start up would not be good for the head gasket. It happened to me a few times when I still lived up in Pa. until I learned how to avoid it. It sure seems like a big coincidence if the 2 things aren't connected.
     
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  2. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Drive it easy, let it warm up before driving and follow the recommendations on when to change all fluids.
     
  3. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Between reading about the symptoms on PC, experience, and studying the engine - my opinion is that the banging is caused by five things. These are: oil accumulation in the intake, sludge in the intake manifold and EGR system blocking EGR which increases engine temperatures,.carbon deposits from oil burning leading to increased compression, bad head gasket leaking fluid into the cylinders, and bad gas.

    It's also common knowledge that knocking damages engines.


    Pixel XL ?
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    So pollution control systems in the main, Positive Crankcase Ventilation and Exhaust Gas Recirculation. In both case, combustion by-products being dumped back in. To put it really bluntly: the engine's eating it's shit...
     
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  5. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Water and recirculated gasses aren't a problem. It's the oil mist and carbon particulates causing issues. If we could get systems that filter out the latter... That would be an ideal engine.

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    The Oil Catch Can some have installed takes a lot of that out before it reaches the engine intake.
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    You're on that, right? ;)
     
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  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Not on my 13K mile 2017.
     
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  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Never too early to start (y).
     
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  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I wish I could convince my son with his 50K + mile 2015 Prius v
     
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  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    From what a dealer mech tells me they do about 3 gen iii prii head gasket / oil burning related repairs a week where he works.

    He states the 1.8 just doesn’t have enough material in the right places (compared to the 1.5) and “erodes” its way into burning oil.

    Will see if I can pull his post and linky it.

    Sort of sounds similar to what happened when you bore out an engine too much.

    Ah well
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Yeah best let it build up for a while...
     
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  13. Tande

    Tande Active Member

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    Has ANYONE figured/out WHAT actually MAKES the noise?? .......I would also suggest; you can't BANG two pieces of metal together without causing wear/damage to SOME degree.....:(
     
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  14. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    I know it's been talked about to death, but I still believe it has to do with some unburned fuel left in the combustion chamber and it causes detonation upon the next restart. I say this because it sure sounds like detonation and it only occurs when the car is restarted after it has only run for a few seconds and was quickly shut off. I think some unburned fuel remains and that's what you hear and it makes me wonder if that has an effect on the head gasket. That's my 2 cents and that's probably what my opinion is worth LOL.:rolleyes:
     
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  15. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    I think that the ERG system has been redesigned, perhaps putting this issue to rest in the GEN 4.
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Agree, Exhaust Gas Recirculation cooler inlet is now downstream of the Catalytic Converter, and looks to have a bigger cross-section, but it is air-borne oil (and whatever) from the Positive Crankcase Ventilation filter that an Oil Catch Can is dealing with, trying to stop it before the intake manifold and combustion chamber.
     
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  17. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    Oil/water condensation/fuel that is sitting @ the bottom of the intake plenum creates this knock on start up. Liquids are an incompressible solid. It originates from the pcv valve. When it is cold outside, engines tend to run rich until engine is at operating temp, creating higher levels of carbon monoxide. Water condensation forms on cool down in cold outside temps that is present in the crankcase. Fuel that is sitting in the combustion chamber tends to leak down into the crankcase. The oil catch can will help with cleaner combustion. Hence no knock to those that are using them. Both of our third gen prius have oil catch cans and none of them have had a cold start knock. The 2010 prius has had one for almost 3 years now. While the 2011 has had one for the last 8 months. It is the cold season and I am not surprised at all to see all these cold start problems along with head gasket issues. I love to see all the feedback. I am glad to see people are coming here to share their experience, It helps others to come to a conclusion on what is going on. Toyota has done nothing(n)
     
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  18. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    Oil catch Can Thread

    Thanks Mjoo for posting this! Apart from my own data, others here have posted there results in using the catch can and how it eliminates knock. The more people post this will result in more people realizing how important it is to have a catch can. If you google catch can or youtube it, you will see that these things are on a lot of cars. Including OEM from different manufacturers. It is important to check the catch can more often in cold weather and empty it. Or it will not work. I say often because some of us drive 100-2000 miles + per week. In cold climates, people are more inclined to idle their cars putting more wear and tear on the motor oil. So 10k oci may not be a good idea in cold climate, uphill drag racing, drifting etc.
     
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  19. reinerh

    reinerh Junior Member

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    yeah this makes sense.

    one other issue might be engine coolant turned to acid, its very important to change that at around 100k or so.

    detonation due to oil, neh it has sensors for that to retard timing if it need to be. but high heat of course can kill a head gasket, like an overheat.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    I'd put my money on post #23; good list of "usual suspects".
     
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