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Cold weather cruise control and unexpected engine ON

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by bwilson4web, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    More than a hundred trials, never happened once to me.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I believe you because I've seen the Prius Prime review that caught it happening on an upgrade:
    I suspect we are seeing two, independent, intermittent problems: flat land cruise control, and hill climb.

    Let me suggest video recording your symptom as well as one of the failed attempts using cruise control. Video analysis often reveals things not obvious when part of the experiment. For example, the two videos I posted show a net reduction in power during the cruise control ON to SET interval which I had not noticed before. It remains an intermittent problem which suggest there is one or more independent variables not yet identified and power might be one.

    I bought a GS36H dash cam to record my experiments. There are challenges getting daylight recording of windshield and instrument cluster but I've had some success by tilting the camera down. I still get a windshield band but the lower, average exposure means the instruments can be read.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #22 bwilson4web, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We're above freezing but I have this hill climb route:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Looking at workarounds, I confirmed that stopping and turning off the car aborts the engine ON operation. I was able to complete the breakfast run in EV.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I don't have a way to do video but here's what I did this morning.

    Car in 48F garage all night, on charge.
    Pre-condition using remote A/C for 5 minutes.
    Back out of garage and start down the street, temperature outside 28F.
    When I got off my block, I engaged cruise.
    I used cruise to get to the highway, entered the highway via a steep uphill entrance to 65mph. Engaged cruise, see image below.
    Drove on the highway until battery at 45%, then drove at 45mph with cruise until battery at 38%, all on cruise.
    Charged from 38% to 77% outside.
    Had car at dealer for maintenance for an hour.
    Charge at 75%, temperature now 22F, drove to work which starts flat and then involves a slow climb followed by a flat followed by a major climb.
    Got to work with battery at 7%.
    Never tripped out of Ev.

    20171218_060409[1].jpg

    upload_2017-12-18_8-49-46.png

    upload_2017-12-18_8-51-2.png
     
    #25 Lee Jay, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Reported to defeat the engine ON. I haven't tested it, yet.
    I have not gotten it to happen below 96%, yet.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Hmm...

     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This evening, I replicated the problem at 48 F (9 C). I then stopped the car; powered up, and; tried to replicate. It would. This is the second time I've confirmed this happens.

    In the morning, I'll try key fob preconditioning with the car plugged in.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    First of all, great thread, thank you. I've also reported on instances where the ICE comes on mysteriously, for a short time while doing street driving (going 45mph or under, or stopped at a light), without any heat or A/C, with an almost full charge in the traction battery, and with the MFD showing the ICE is off when it's actually come on (ICE comes on when Stopped -- yet monitor shows it's OFF | PriusChat). The times I've noticed it have all been at night, but here in SoCal, I don't think it's been below 55F, and was not using the cruise control as it was city driving, stopping at signals).

    Can't help with your experiment here unless the weather really dips. But one quick passing question... in the YouTube video above (time lapse) -- I always have my MFD set to that same screen -- in the video, above the battery icon is the percentage of charge left. However on mine, instead of, say, "83%" it shows the number of miles (17.2mi) left. Just curious, is there a toggle between the two? I don't think I've ever seen the percentage on that screen.
     
    #29 stevepea, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Page 233 of the owner's manual, last item:

    upload_2017-12-21_10-31-11.png
     
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yes, there is a 'settings.'
    • Use the steering, right-hand, control.
    • Use the right quadrant arrow to move to the right edge of the options.
      • Use the bottom quadrant arrow to find the option of interest.
      • Use the right quadrant arrow to enter the meter customize display mode showing the different values.
        • Use the bottom quadrant arrow to cycle between the options.
        • Use the quadrant center button to choose the options.
      • Use the separate, back button to exit back with the new configuration.
    • Use the right quadrant arrow to normalize the display.
    The following Toyota YouTube is excellent.


    Bob Wilson
     
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  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Okay, I was finally able to replicate this:
    1. Soak in garage all night at 55F.
    2. Full charge.
    3. Left for work, drove normally, mostly with cruise.
    4. Got to work, all Ev, battery at 39%.
    5. Plugged in at work, 20F.
    6. Full charge and left for home after 5 hours at work.
    7. Drove manually to the bottom of the hill near work, all Ev.
    8. At the bottom, battery at 97%, car near zero power, set cruise.
    9. Engine instantly came on at the press of the set switch.
    I've done this many times before with the battery in the 70-85% range, no engine start.
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was surprised the first time it happened to me too.

    I went all of last winter without seeing it but I was in the habit of hitting front windshield defrost. As expected, this turns on the engine, so I would not see the symptom.

    I'm hoping to write up a final technical description including workarounds. Then I'll share it with Toyota.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #33 bwilson4web, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Confirmed that key fob, "A/C" button, and waiting 5 minutes defeats the engine ON. The next test will be walking to the car and using "A/C" button with a 30 second delay. Preconditioning won't have enough time to warm the cabin.

    Second test, same result. This time I shortened it to letting the HVAC come on before opening the door. In effect, as long as it takes to walk outside, hit the "A/C" button on the key fob, and walk to the car.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #34 bwilson4web, Dec 24, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I hope @priuscatprimeguy can confirm the engine ON can be defeated by:
    1. READY car
    2. Power down
    3. READY car and try to replicate
    Background, I noticed the key fob, "A/C" preconditioning appears to to be a subset of READY. So on a hunch, I tried READY, off, and READY and it failed the engine ON using cruise control. I need to replicate this a couple more times but in the meanwhile I'm hoping @priuscatprimeguy can test it too.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    so. if I'm reading this correctly, you want me to start the car like I usually do but instead of driving off on the trip you want me to immediately power down the car then put the car in ready mode again then drive off onto the trip that normally triggers ICE, right?
     
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  17. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    @priuscatprimeguy Today might be the last time this year you get to try this at temperature above 14f. Not that below 14f results wouldn't be informative too. I got snow too.
     
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  18. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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  19. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Very nice so far.

    Question: Before when the ICE was coming on was it always after fully charging from a low SoC? Is it possible that the new full or higher Soc isn't being updated to the "code" the DRCC is reading on start up? Would explain why rebooting/refreshing fixes the problem. Wonder if there is a minimum SoC above depleted that still starts the ICE when setting DRCC?
     
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  20. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    no, not necessarily, I have driven round trip 5.2 miles to/from work and immediately charged my car and the next day went to work again and ICE kicked in
     
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