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Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by 2k1Toaster, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    It’s lovely this time of year :sick:.
     
  2. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    With little effort, I found several dealers who will sell to DIYers at a sub $1650ish prices on the west coast, east cost, the south and the north. Google a bunch of your local dealers and you, too, will quickly find a decent price. And then wait for the semi annual 15% off all parts coupon.
     
  3. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Might want to call ahead and confirm that they will sell the battery to an individual. Just because a dealer has an internet presence and lists the battery info doesn't mean that they'll sell it to you. Some are afraid that an unqualified DIY person could screw it up and cause more trouble than the dealer wants to experience. It's all up to the parts manager or counter person or or or...
     
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  4. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    That would be quite a drive from Wellington :eek::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
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  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It would, and hopefully a long while before I have to consider it. :eek::ROFLMAO: I be sure to call head before I set out. (y)
     
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  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    With a problem battery?
     
  7. Larryy

    Larryy Active Member

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    I don't think anyone will be able to answer that question until we start seeing failures. I rolled the dice 2 months ago, and so far, I am happy. My car works perfectly and my fuel economy has increased by about 10 mpg. The new modules and accessories look to be very high quality. Installation was easy for me but may be difficult for some people. Installation mistakes made by DIY people could be the make or break issue for 2k1toasters business. I am considering doing installs in my area.

    Shame on Toyota for this. It's not like they are going to "rebuild" and resell any of the components so why would a paint job matter? Are they simply punishing us for being disloyal? How dare we look for a cheaper alternative like a rebuild! $10 core would be about right. Certainly no more than $280, if you were to put a $10 core charge on each module. And you should be able to just turn in the module cores minus the case and electronics! Shame on Toyota!

    Hurray for people like 2k1toaster and all of us who are taking a chance on his product! Even if it doesn't last 10 years I will still feel good about helping to develop an alternative. I suspect Prius is not the only car that will need new batteries, and high dealer prices will mean these new batteries will see duty in other hybrids as well, providing of course that they go the mile. I suspect they will.

    I am also hoping to see 2k1toaster do more volume which may allow him to lower the price.
     
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Thank you for the update.

    We need to be on the lookout for fakes though. CEBA Battery registered here and tried promoting their inferior new cells. I see the mods removed the posting, but we need to be watchful. Their product looks similar because 2K1Toaster uses the same brackets, after helping them improve the design.

    Here is the user profile here. CEBA Battery | PriusChat
     
    #368 Prodigyplace, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  9. taxibuddy

    taxibuddy Member

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    What do we know about the toaster cells though? Do we have the cell datasheet? Do we know the manufacturer? Do we know about quality control? Do we know how the cells are matched? I've read this thread but not in while so maybe those have already been answered.

    In my professional life, the vehicles I work on have active battery management systems that continuously balance the cells. To my knowledge, the Toyota BMS simply monitors voltages and attempts to regulate temperature through forced air cooling. That means that the cells need to stay balanced on their own over many years of service. So it's not only about retaining sufficient capacity over an acceptable number of years. They must retain capacity AND stay balanced on their own.

    One of the toaster owners said he was wasn't worried about endurance because he wasn't going to keep the car that long, but what's the obligation to the new owner? Will he tell the owner about the replacement and how will that affect the value? Besides that if the replacement pack fails much sooner than anticipated but beyond the short warranty, then the problem will indeed land with the current owner.

    As a current Prius owner and former Camry Hybrid owner, I am thrilled that a third party new pack is available. I am also thrilled that some of our members are using it. My questions don't require answers and they definitely aren't accusations. They are just the question rolling around in my head and the reason that if I had to buy a pack today, I would still buy a Toyota pack. My questions become irrelevant with time but it's going to take a LOT of time for me to be convinced.

    I do care are about the longevity of my cars. Besides the Prius, I have a 06 Odyssey, and 04 Camry, and an 83 Camry (the one used in Stranger Things) and I plan to keep all my cars running as long as I can. I'll be watching this thread so see how it goes and I'm rooting for the success of this new option.
     
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  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I am expect @2k1Toaster would be willing to share but you may need to PM him. I know he has tested that the cells meet the specifications he requested. He mentioned the specs in a post or 2 here and stated his testing of the CEBA cells proved they were inferior.

    This image from post 1 here gives some information.

    [​IMG]

    Testing image here. Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells | Page 3 | PriusChat

    More specs compared to OEM. Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells | Page 6 | PriusChat
     
    #370 Prodigyplace, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Questions like this come to mind for me, reading here. How about owners that cavalierly dump in various "better" fluids in the transaxle, for example. Or routinely tow.
     
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  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Not visit the forum for a day and you get an entire page of new posts!

    As to the $1625 thing, good luck with that. But if you can get it, go for it. As mentioned lots of times dealer internet pricing rarely matches the reality when you show up at the counter. But if you can get it for that price, I'd be surprised.

    The cells lasting or not lasting, we've hashed that out. Only time over a large enough sample will be definitive. But as with anything, you can do tests and make pretty realistic guesses. My battery is designed to be as similar to Toyota's battery as possible while adding what I deemed to be improvements. As with many of my business ventures, I want the best for me and if it is not available on the market I make it. Most of my projects nobody ever sees. Some of them, only go to a few people to cover some minimum costs. Others become actual businesses like this one. This isn't my first rodeo.

    My estimations are that these batteries will last an equivalent time to Toyota's batteries. The reason being they are as close to the same chemically as the originals. They are close (more/better) capacity on average than the originals. Under load, they maintain close module balancing just like the original pack.

    The only point of contention I know of, is the design itself being cylindrical or being prismatic. I see and understand what the original designers were wanting to do with the plenum effect. However, I don't think it worked as intended. Remember they were pioneers of this for vehicles. With a perfectly sealed battery and some awesome powerful duct fans it would blow the air through each module nice and evenly. I'm sure that's what the computer simulations of 1998 told them when they made it for the first Gen.

    In reality what we see is the the centre of the pack getting hot, suggesting uneven airflow. In a true plenum style design, this wouldn't happen, it should heat evenly. Also with the tight spacing the entire pack heats up more slowly acting as a heat sink but that also means that the pack gets heat soaked for longer times before the fans kicks in. Both of these tell me that the design isn't working as intended. BUT, it is working sufficiently well that Toyota deemed it unnecessary to go back to the drawing board.

    The auto manufactures don't always hit a home run the first time. First Gen Nissan Leaf battery problems anyone? I have one of those too, they definitely could have done better, but you can tell someone was telling the engineers "no, that's too expensive".

    My approach was make the best I possible can, I don't care about the price. And you get what I have for offer now. From the first time I saw the Yabo modules and CEBA modules/kit I knew they were one to something. Unfortunately for Yabo, they went the extreme cost cutting way and the modules they make (prismatic drop-in form factor replacements) are nothing like the modules PrimeEarth (aka Toyota original) makes. Add in you could buy just 1 of them and put a completely out of whack battery into a completely out of whack dead pack, it didn't go well. CEBA took the initiative for the cylindrical design and the innovative plastic mechanics that allow a drop-in full pack replacement. Brilliant. Unfortunately they too suffered from a case of cost cutting, and the heart of the system, the battery, doesn't live up to specs. That's what started us down this path.

    There is sufficient data supplied by various members who have used the pack to see how it performs in real life. So far, so good. I wouldn't have it in my car, if I didn't think it would last. I don't have the time to replace packs.

    Right now I am backordered until April. I am only devoting so much money at a time for each shipment meaning there are only so many units. There is great demand which is a good problem to have, but I am hoping with a larger sea freight order due in August the perpetual pre-order/sold-out game will finish.

    As to costs in the future, a good portion of the cost of each pack is shipping. Both within China Mainland and to the US and then within the US mainland. Larger orders are the only way to solve that problem, which is a lot of capital to tie up due to the nature of these items being so expensive.
     
  13. thorn

    thorn Member

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    I have a 2004 with 140k miles that still is getting good mileage but the capacity of the battery seems reduced. It goes into the red when I go up our hill and running the AC which it never has before. So, one day soon it will probably bite the dust. I was at the dealer today (bought a 2017 Prime) and stopped by the parts dept and he said it is $3900 plus $1300 for the core. He didn't know if it was brand new or rebuilt. So, maybe by August I'll be ready for one. :)
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That sounds inflated; aren't they supposed to be around $2100 now? (n)
     
  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Close $1950 MSRP The price was lowered in January 2018.
    (Base was my only trim option. The battery is the same anyway.)

    upload_2018-3-16_14-14-51.png

    From 2004 Toyota Prius Parts - metrotoyotapartsnow.com
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The core charge is close to the battery price now.
     
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Yeah. That is in Ohio.
    They show the Prime battery at a real bargain with MSRP at $0.00. ;)
     
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  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Yes $1950 is the price normal people will pay at a counter if they will sell it to you as of Jan 2018.

    There are still people pushing this $1650 number around that you won't get unless you are a wholesaler or a dealer friend. I am glad the options are improving for everyone with a Prius with the repair price dropping. Good news for all!
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Third gen battery came in around $2400 on that site, plus the $1350 core charge. In US dollars. Shipping "to be determined", for the Great White North.
     
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  20. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    They ship things north of the 49th parallel :p?
     
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