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Chinese hackers with proximity keys

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by danlatu, May 1, 2017.

  1. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    I've been reading jalopnik for some time and have seen the articles about how car theft has been on the rise with proximity key hacking. People stealing cars and stealing hybrid batteries to then later sell on the craigslist/black market. Something not new but something of concern to discuss here. When I was growing up in socal, civic's, integra's and accord's were very hot items. My friends cars have been stolen/stripped and then found in a grocery store parking lot covered in wd40. My cars have been broken into but non of them have been stolen. The anti-theft device I had incorporated in my cars were cut/kill switches. You hide the switch any place and you can kill the ignition/fuel pump. This will be the next project after my rebuild.
    Screen Shot 2017-05-01 at 3.29.06 PM.png
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Wait what: when all done they rust proofed it? Destroys fingerprints??
     
  3. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    Destroyed finger prints. Left the car with 4 donuts on the car and all the aftermarket parts gone. Insurance did not cover all of these items but did give higher than blue book to my buddy. I've been pulled over because cops had a description for a stolen white integra. I've been followed and had to call the police in fear of being car jacked. That is why I leave my car stock now. I tint the windows and hide my valuables. People can be stupid.
     
  4. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    how bad is it for prius? last time i checked, prius was about the least likely car to be stolen, i'm sure it's going up with demand for HV batteries, but not sure the scale.
    BTW, what does it make Honda cars the top target for car theft?
     
    #4 Former Member 68813, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  5. Cloudx007

    Cloudx007 Junior Member

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    Any ways to counter act / block the proximity openers?
     
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  6. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    At the time, people were stealing integra gsr and type r for there engines, transmissions, interior, gauge cluster's etc. Accord and acura tl j series v6 motor also fit into civics, 90% of all honda parts are cross compatible. You can take a prelude h22 motor and b series transmission from an integra and make what is called an h2b and drop it into an accord, crv, crx etc. A lot of times people were turbo charging these motors and street racing illegally to make money and throw the stock motor away and swap another. I knew a guy who would go to a street race with a stock crx sohc motor bet couple hundred dollars and loose on purpose, he would pop his hood and made sure everyone could see his motor and pretend to mess with his timing gear and act ignorant. People would laugh and he would say he'd be back tomorrow night, I need to increase fuel pressure and people would continue to laugh. He would then go home and do a motor swap and put in a supercharged integra gsr motor /b series trans and clean house. Companies have made motor mounts and plates that allow you to use different parts on cars to fit. I had a trans am with laser cut brake brackets to mount corvette z06 4 piston calipers and rotors. I could stop from 150 to 80mph repeatedly without brake fade.

    As more of these batteries fail, I am sure there will be a demand. The competition in my area around here is increasing. There are guy's who can come to your house and fix your hybrid system from 500-1000$. The local junkyard refused to sell me individual batteries and part out. They wanted me to buy the whole thing. I chose to buy individually from eBay. :mad::mad::mad: Ebay wants 800-4200$ for a hybrid battery system. I wonder how many were borrowed.
     
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  7. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    Not to my knowledge, That is why I brought up the idea of putting a kill switch in the car to disable the car so it could not be driven away. Alarms, keys and kill switches are ways to put layers in the systems to slow someone down in the process of theft or borrowing.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Turn off the SKS?
     
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  9. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Yes. They are using their own relay to make the car think the key is right there, even though it is hanging in your house somewhere. If they can't reach the key it won't work. Keep your key in a metal box when you're not using it. Let them try to contact your key through a faraday cage...
     
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  10. j12piprius

    j12piprius Junior Member

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    I'm quite interested to install some kill switches. Do you have any updates and suggestions?
     
  11. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

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    I have full coverage insurance and would hope someone would steal my car because it is worth a lot more than I paid for it. I have not got around to putting the kill switch in. You could do this by cutting spark/fuel with a 2$ switch.
     
  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Well not really, that is the easiest way to "force EV". The Prius will just roll away silently until the battery is depleted. Plenty of battery to drive it nicely up a flatbed truck...
     
  13. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Not sure about earlier generations, but 2016+ Prii allow you to "turn off" the key fob transmitter by holding down the Lock button and pressing the Unlock button a few times. The LED on the fob will flash two times (twice). You can't open any door using the proximity sensor until you press the Lock or Unlock button on the fob.

    And... if I see any Chinese hackers by my car they're in for a world of hurt... :p
     
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  14. j12piprius

    j12piprius Junior Member

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    Thank you very much.
    The solution was easy, right in front of me but took awhile to find.
    Settings / Vehicle settings / Key system with electric key / OFF. I feel much better with this off. :D

    Holding the fob to the power button enables the car to be started. :cool:
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    In all seriousness, maybe the manufacturers should cut their losses and go back to physical key in the ignition system.
     
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  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    What losses are the manufacturers suffering? o_O People are still buying their products.:rolleyes:
     
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  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    For others, note that the 'Vehicle' button is greyed out in one of the accessory modes. This foiled me when searching for it one time. But it works in full Ready, and in the other accessory (everything on) mode.
     
  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I'm not buying a car that doesn't have a SKS in today's age. This "they gonna steal my car with a fob hack" is way overblown and crazy. All it takes is somebody with a flat-bed truck and they will steal your car if they want to. The convenience of never having to take a key anywhere trumps the near zero probability of it being stolen because of an SKS spoofer.

    I have even replaced all the locks on all my houses with smart locks so I can open them with fingerprints and passcodes.

    I HATE keys.
     
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  19. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Are the smart locks hard-wired or battery operated? Just curious - what happens when the battery dies? Manual override with buttons?
     
  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Battery operated. With 12 AA lithium batteries, and 20+ entry/exits a day on average the batteries last about 2 years. At a rental unit with 12 people going in and out multiple times a day it probably had 100-200 cycles a day. Batteries still lasted over a year. For the last 2-3 months of their life, the sound is different as the lock actuator is slower. So you get a huuuuge warning period. Then when the battery is considered dead by the unit, it still works for another few weeks along with an audible alarm after every operation. If you ignore it and it completely dies, there are contactor points on the bottom for a 9V battery. Press against the contact points and it works as normal. There is also an emergency mechanical key, but I don't even know where those are anymore.

    I have actual Samsung Korean door locks, from Korea. All the US and Canadian doors had to modified because door thicknesses and handle protrusions are not the same between Korea and North America. When you're in Korea, every door has one. If you encounter a western style door, it is like spotting a flip phone in the wild. "Yeah, I guess it works, but why?"

    Cleaners have an RFID key that only works on one day of the week. I can use my phone's NFC to unlock the door, my fingerprints, my RFID tag on my keychain with my other vehicle fobs, a manual lengthy passcode, etc. Has a built in alarm, if it detects any of the locking tabs aren't touching metal when it should be (lockpicking) it will forcibly re-lock and sound audible alarms inside and out. If it detects the lock tabs are completely open (like crowbar or kicking down the door) same thing, audible alarm immediately. If you close the door, but it just doesn't make the latch which happens sometimes if you're in a hurry it will quickly make a few beeps to say "hey you didn't close the door".

    I have one like this at one house. I think it looks beautiful compared to a standard door handle and so much more functional:

    [​IMG]
     
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