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No, It’s Real: EV Range Down

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by mr88cet, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    There’s a chance it might be rebounding a little now, but not 100% certain yet. I’ll report back when I have more-definite info.
     
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    So, reporting back now, somewhere around two months after the range went way down: In short, it doesn’t appear to have gone up much, but a little bit. Up to 26.5-27miles, predicted, typically.

    I went off to China (i.e., not driving it) for a couple weeks at the end of July and early August. Now, after driving it a few weeks, it has gone up to charging ~5.1KWh typically, rather than 5KWh or slightly less, from the HV-EV threshold to full.

    Mostly what the China trip did was make me fall way behind with PriusChat, since half of the Internet is blocked there (exaggerating, of course, or maybe not!).

    Although I can’t find it right now, I think I saw mention/suggestion of rebooting the computer by disconnecting the 12V battery for a minute or two. I’m thinking about trying that. Thoughts? Problem is I can’t rule out the possibility that it could make the situation worse as easily as better...
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    has your weather changed much? still hot here. i don't have a tool to measure kWh, but my range is still summertime down.
     
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  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Reasonable question! Nah, pretty much the same — low triple-digits... Temperatures are expected to drop a little next week, though.
     
    #64 mr88cet, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my range doesn't climb until it hits the high 70's low 80's average. prime might be improved though.
     
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  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    So, Bob, this looks like excellent info here, but I think I kinda missed the context. The picture seems to be about your i3, but not sure; did your P.Prime also lose range? Either way, did it happen seemingly out of the blue like mine, or...?
     
  7. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Interesting. I don’t recall the amount charged from the HV threshold to “full” having reduced last summer. I’m pretty sure I would have noticed and remembered, but I’m starting to wonder since you mention yours having gone down...
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think that is bobs prime, at 6 kWh. ignore the header on his phone.
     
  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Gotcha. In any case, it’s interesting info, but a much lesser drop than I’ve seen — down to 4.8KWh, rebounding a little to 5 to 5.1ish now.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe it's not a lot of triple digits in huntsville.
     
  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Maybe so (well, “not”). Yeah, temperature is probably at least part of it.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what else is there? do you use the battery conditioning?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It turned into a process problem that I eventually solved:
    • battery icon shows the EV part over the hybrid part
    • the car has to be discharged to the boundary before charging to measure capacity
    • running in hybrid mode does NOT consistently dig into the hybrid battery part
      • leaving car in ready with a load, the hybrid battery part will reach a variable, local minimum
    To measure the EV battery capacity, we have to enable HV mode so about 1-2 miles of EV range is preserved when arriving at the driveway:
    [​IMG]
    Switch back to EV mode and drive around the block until EV switches to HV. Immediately return to parking and charging spot. Charging will fill the EV part and give us get reproducible measurements. Using this improved method, I was able to get useful metrics: Prius Prime Plus in my hands | Page 29 | PriusChat

    If you want to measure part of the HV battery capacity, leave the car parked READY in HV mode with significant loads like the heater/AC and lights. The car will reach a point where the engine cycles ON/OFF at the lowest level the HV mode can reach. Sit in the car while the engine goes from OFF to ON and then turn OFF the car and loads. This is the local minimum, HV battery capacity. However, this takes more time and manual actions to reach.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I find it odd that the range would drop this much — 6-8 miles or so — just from temperature alone. Nobody else seems to be seeing it change an entire KWh less, as far as I can recall. Also, in two distinct 2-mile-per-charge steps... I think there must be other factors involved.

    After I shut it down every time, it asks me ... actually, I forget exactly how it phrases it, but essentially whether it can use the AC to regulate temperature during charging. I always say “yes.” Is that what you’re asking?
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i haven't seen anyone post numbers except bob, have you?

    when the pip came out, we were all complaining about summer and winter range drop.

    prime owners seem a little more superficial.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Thats not fair. He has reported "miles" while I'm after kWh. Same idea but different scales. Back of the envelope:
    • 24 mi = ~6 kWh * ~4 mi/kWh :: my most recent measurement of EV kWh
    So I agree there has been a loss of one mile range from the EPA 25 mile metric. But driving around town, I'm still in the 27-29 mile range because city driving is more efficient than highway.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Well, I reported both, actually. Charging about 1KWh less on a full charge from the HV threshold to “full,” and from 32ish to 26ish (estimated) miles.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry, i meant no one besides you two gentlemen.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    “gentlemen?”

    So you haven’t met my wife of 46 years. <grins>

    Bob Wilson
     
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  20. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Update: Presumably from ambient (outdoor) temperature reduction, it’s up to charging around 5.3-5.4KWh. Still pretty far from its original 6.2ish KWh, but a big improvement over its low point at ~4.8KWh. The guesstimatron estimating typically in the 27.x mile range, rather than 25-26.
     
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