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what else can I check? possible ABS actuator issue?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by guavajuice, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    Hi guys-

    2006 Prius with 244k. I'm the 2nd owner, and the original owner garaged it and seemed to always take it in for service. I was just driving recently in the city and 3 dash lights came on: parking brake, (!), and ABS. (VSC light is not on). Car behaves normally other than the lights.

    So I went home and used a friend's OBD2 reader:
    • U0293 (Hybrid PCM communication)
    • U0100 (generic lost communication)
    Blink codes:
    • (!): 57, 59, and 69
    • ABS: 42
    Fuses:
    • HEV (33) fuse: OK
    • AM2 (31) fuse: OK
    12V battery (2.5 years old):
    • Ready: 13.8V (using the on-screen diagnostic mode)
    • On: 11.8V (using the on-screen diagnostic mode)
    • Battery term-term (negative disconnected from car): 12.5V
    • I took it Batteries+ to see if they could test it, and their tool said it was ok
    Here's the closest thread I can find to my situation, and the original poster reported experiencing brake issues: 12V Battery or ABS Actuator? | PriusChat

    I have a couple questions:
    1) I don't have a mini VCI with techstream. Will that provide more detail than the blink codes?

    2) Does lack of VSC warning light mean anything? Most threads I see with issues have a VSC light on.

    3) what else can I check before I go replace the (expensive) ABS actuator?

    Thanks for any direction you can point me in!
     
  2. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    just went and turned the car on to listen to the ABS actuator, and it's on a 5 sec on, 5 sec off cycle with the car running. (assuming it's the thing making the clicking/whirring noise from the driver's side firewall)
     
  3. Moses Bruh

    Moses Bruh Member

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    When u press on the brakes all the way, do you get the brake bark that seems to come with most of the actuator problems?
     
  4. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    Hi Moses, thanks for chiming in.

    I've observed a bark over many months, but it seems to be somewhat unrelated to the brake pedal position.

    For example, right now I just went and started the car, and with brake all the way to the floor, it would do 1 or 2 tiny barks then stop. Wouldn't bark again until I pushed pedal to the floor again (again 1 or 2 tiny barks).

    Another time a few months ago, after car was sitting a few days, it would bark like crazy just sitting there in Park (no pedal pressure).

    Ive also seen it barking moderately while stopped at a red light (some pedal pressure).
     
    #4 guavajuice, Jun 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  5. Moses Bruh

    Moses Bruh Member

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    I usually only get a short duration of brake bark only when the brake pedal is pressed hard all the way in, I would try to get the techstream codes if any, and then compare them with the manual code description as you dont seem to have any loss of braking power when the lights are on, which could be less serious issue. I would also check your cars engine oil if it is low or not, on a level surface. Hopefully more experienced users can chime in as well.
     
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  6. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    You definitely want to get a mini VCI and Techstream setup to diagnose this properly, I'm sure there are ABS codes stored in there you can't see yet without it.
     
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  7. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    Cool, thanks guys. My mini VCI came in and I *think* I've got my Windows VM with Techstream installed properly on my Mac. I'll post my findings this weekend.
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    And it keeps repeating at this approx. interval? If so, the actuator is leaking (a lot).
     
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  9. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    Very good info, thanks Foto. Yes, seems to just repeat this cycle.

    What is "normal" (but functional) for an old car?
     
  10. Moses Bruh

    Moses Bruh Member

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    my 2008 prius has 163k miles, and for my car the actuator during idle does not turn on and off every 5 seconds thats for sure, def longer pauses before it cycles on. But honestly im not even sure what normal actuator cycle is when the car is on idle.
     
  11. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    The actuator (electronic) should be closed unless the vehicle is activating the ABS function or traction control. When unpowered the normal state for the valves in the solenoid block is for them to be closed (when actuated the solenoids are open). It's normal to hear the ABS motor buzz if the sensor sees low pressure but if the solenoids are leaking then you can start to hear the motor buzz more often and it may cause some other weird symptoms like some are seeing above.
     
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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    'Normal' in my experience is to hear the pump usually when opening the driver's door after sitting overnight, and to hear it while driving every every, um, handful of uses of the brakes. 'Handful' is somewhat variable, depending on how hard you were braking and the condition of the brakes themselves. Still, 'after every handful of uses' does not encompass having to continually pump itself back up while just sitting there. That one has rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible.
     
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  13. Moses Bruh

    Moses Bruh Member

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    I see, yes normally i dont hear the abs noise until i open the car door to start it, however, most of the time when driving, after i have the foot on the brake pedal at a stop light after i let go, most of the time the actuator noise will go off to re calibrate. Im assuming it could a slightly failing pump, or there is some air in the brake lines.
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Nothing about re-calibrating, all it's doing is pumping pressure back up, just like a well pump if you have well water.

    There are a lot of Prius things that it's possible to obsess over, with scant evidence that obsessing is helpful. If you are occasionally, or most of the time of most of the time for two unspecified values of 'most', hearing the pump when you have used the brakes, maybe it's possible there's some incipient problem or maybe it's possible you're thinking yourself into one.

    If a problem worth fussing over develops, it'll be more obvious.
     
  15. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    The ABS system should build up pressure in the accumulator when the car first starts up. If all is working correctly the pressure it builds in the accumulator (pressure tank) is similar to what you could develop when stomping on the brake pedal very hard. The system effectively allows you control unless you activate the ABS or VSC.

    This is very technical but it has some helpful diagrams on how the Prius braking system works:
    https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1017&context=auto_pres

    If the pump is running every time you step on the brake it is possible one or more of the solenoids are slightly leaking pressure back into the braking lines or the MC. If it is fairly infrequent then you are probably fine for now. If you start hearing the ABS kick in far too often even when stopped at idle then you should definitely consider replacing the ABS assembly.

    This is what it sounds like when the solenoids are leaking on a Highlander:


    Notice how often it runs without even using the brakes at all. In this case the aluminum solenoid block behind the pump and accumulator needs to be replaced to fix the issue. On a Prius unfortunately they are one piece so typically the entire ABS assembly must be changed.
     
    #15 MTL_hihy, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That changes between different Prius generations. This is the Gen 2 forum and it is true for Gen 2, but shouldn't be gen-eralized to other years.
     
  17. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    Ok I got my MVCI hooked up and pulled the codes. I burned a lot of time trying to get the MVCI driver installed on a 64bit Windows dev VM, but ended up just getting a 32bit Windows ISO and installing in VMWare Fusion. (I followed these instructions Mini VCI J2534 Toyota Techstream Diagnostic Scanner: How to install Toyota TIS Techstream on VMware and I used a mini VCI cable from AutoGrills on Amazon for $30)

    Codes are what you might expect
    • C1256 ACCumulator Low Pressure
    • C1391 Abnormal Leak of ACC Press
    • U0293 Lost communication of Hybrid Vehicle Control System
    So looks like I will be needing a new ABS ACCumulator! Like @MTL_hihy is describing, since it's pumping at idle frequently, it's not healthy. Thanks all for the help. Learned a lot and it was cool seeing all the temps, voltages, and percentages on the laptop.
     
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  18. guavajuice

    guavajuice New Member

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    welp I went to 2 junkyards today and all 8 gen-2 Priuses had their accumulators already harvested. As a consolation, I was going to see if I could bleed the brakes with the Techstream to see if that helped any, but my version seems to be missing the "utility" button within the ABS/VSC menu, so that's not an option I guess (v12.20.024).
     
  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It could also be a shortcoming of the cheap MVCI cables. Quality control is not the greatest (to non-existent) and we have a lot of reports of things not working right or missing features is Techstream.
     
  20. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    It was implied since this is a gen 2 section of the forum but always helps to clarify for others.

    Is it really a function of the cables or is it the version of Techstream software you use? The cable doesn't make much sense since it should just set the protocol for communication between the laptop and the on-board computers. I would try another version to see if maybe the cable manufacturer was possibly providing (via CD or link) some neutered version of Techstream for some reason.

    Looks like this also confirms it's likely a software problem.
    Toyota Techstream Not Able to Customize Settings Solution | OBDII365.com Official Blog

    Try this and see if it works better.
     
    #20 MTL_hihy, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020