2023 Toyota bZ4X EV (Reviews start on page 6)

Could you share nearest cities and states for these cross country trips? I'd like to use PlugShare to understand.

Bob Wilson

 

I have never done cross-country trips in a car. When I was much younger, we drove from the east coast to the midwest ~1000 miles non-stop several times a year. Of course, stopping for gas, but I mean no lodging. But those are in my distant memory, and I have no plan to take any trips out of New England states.

All I am talking about is traveling from the northeast corner of Maine to Boston or sometimes extending to Connecticut. I made a trip to a western part of Vermont in the past, and I may have to do it again sometime in the future, but that is not a routine trip I make. Try plugging in a trip from, say Limestone ME to Boston MA, a total of 407 miles 6 hours 25 min trip, and you will see how impossible it is to do this trip in a non-Tesla BEV. With a Tesla, there is one Super Charger station in Medway, ME, 113 miles away which makes this trip possible, but for a non-Tesla, no chance.

 

Both Model S and lucid have your higher ranges - having 400 & 500 Mi ranges respectively. But you pay for all those KWH's

 

Yeah, all I need is a BEV with 320miles for a full EV range with a price tag of $35K (after a $7.5K tax credit and $2K state incentive). Let me know if you know any BEVs coming that fit the bill.

 

Thanks!

• CCS-1
  • Grand Falls, ME (close enough?)
  • 140 mi - West Gardner Plaza, ME (many CCS-1 station from here)
  • 161 mi - Boston, MA
  • Total 301 mi

Bob Wilson

 

Yeah. I hear ya. Same boat here.
I'll take 2. Save the planet? That will be 45 Grand please...

 

Why picked Grand Falls, ME??? I said Limestone, ME is where I start. I even attached the Plug Share map for this trip. Grand Falls is 145 miles, 3 hours drive south of me. Yeah, If I start traveling from Grand Falls, ME in the USA not Canada with a full charge, I don't have a problem getting to the closest (and apparently currently Easternmost) CCS charger in the West Gardner Plaza on I-95. I have no problem from there on the south. It is the first 256 miles I have no charger.

 

I think I know why you picked the Grand Falls. There is a CCS charger in Grand Falls, which is the closest CCS from Limestone, ME, but it's not in Maine, USA. It is in Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada. Nop, I can't drive in opposite direction to gain any more EV range when traveling South.

 

Keep in mind that the wattage is limited per geographic location, and the 350kW that they list is best case, such as when you are not sharing the physical charger with someone else. I noticed that the Tesla says that their superchargers will cut the wattage in half if you have two cars sharing the same charger. Half the wattage means that it takes (roughly) twice the time for the same amount of power to transfer.

 

Thanks for the information. It's good to know, when and if more 350kW CCS are built near me. But for now, I will be happy with even a 50kW CCS if it is located within 200 miles.

 

Living where you live, some questions:

What about the cold weather impact?
Does your end destination have a charger?
What happens if the charger you depend on to make the trip possible is out?
Does the app you are using give you the status of the charger you are counting on (Is it open or did multiple cars just pull in and it is at full or diminished capacity)?
Where is the nearest factory authorized service center near you?

I've had three time dependent trips snafu'ed by mechanical failures in 50 years of ICE driving. And several 40 mile detours into the back roads.

Would I want to make those trips without chargers every 50 miles? I don't demand the frequency, speed or multiplicity of pumps at almost every exit that gas provides. Nor do I demand the 500 mile range both my cars have. But a little redundancy and a more frequent spacing would help.

Not everyone starts at the same point or is going the same place.

 

I completely agree with you on all points, that's why I am pretty sure that if I do replace my PP with a BEV it will be strictly for commuter use for trips less than 100 miles distance. That range will cover 95% of my current PP's use cases. I am fine with that use of BEV. But as I have pointed out, this arrangement will leave 5% of the time I now use PP for longer than 100 miles travel. That amounts to a total of 30% of the distance I put on my PP annually which will have to be driven by our hybrid SUV to cover that distance. This will make our new total annual gasoline consumption for 1 hybrid SUV, Nissan Pathfinder Hybrid, and 1 BEV to increase over the current situation with the SUV and PP, despite the fact I will be driving the BEV on electricity only for every trips less than 100 miles. That is something I can not really come to the terms with it.

As for your questions, they are all very good questions and everyone who is thinking about switching to a BEV should ask themselves.

What about the cold weather impact? I asked that question myself in this thread. Real Wold BEV range reduction in a really cold region? | PriusChat So far, only one person gave me a somewhat useful answer. But for my own purpose, I think a 50% reduction in the range in the wintertime is a good starting point. Thus for at most 100 miles EV range I will be using a BEV, a 200 miles EPA range is what I will need.

And the rest of your questions are totally moot for me, for I do not plan to drive my BEV on a long trip, thus no use of the charger on the road.

 

Version 3 superchargers don't cut power when 2 cars charge on the same branch

 

Depends on the Leaf. The shorter range one maxes out the DC charging at under 50kW. The long range one could make full use of a 50kW charger. While the charge rate will nominally be the same, the smaller battery capacity than an Ioniq 5 means the charge rate will taper sooner for the Leaf. Say charging started at 10% SOC for both, and went until the Leaf reached 80%, odds are the Ioniq 5 would end up getting more kWhs into its pack over the session. That's before we consider the Leaf's cooling system. Of course, being more efficient could mean the Leaf goes farther even with less energy in the pack.

The good news of you being in a Charge desert is that the DC chargers that do eventually get installed will be faster than 50kW. Unless they are part of a free network.

 

Yeah, I have read that Leaf especially Gen1 could not use CHAdeMO fast charger multiple times on the same trip. I am still entertaining the idea of buying a base model LEAF with a smaller battery to be used strictly as a commuter car. The question is, is 152 miles of EV range enough for me to cover 100 miles max of the trips even in winter, especially after a few years of battery degradation? I think not... Plus, if it has only 152 miles range, I can't drive it home from the closest Nissan dealer where I would buy this car. And there is no charger on the road, and even if there is, I think the base model LEAF S with a smaller battery does not come with the CHAdeMO anymore.

 

It's silly to pick the Tesla flaws that have been glorified as features, and portray them as negatives on a Toyota model. But if that makes you feel better about spending so much on a Tesla, I can help...

You could have saved a lot of typing by simply saying

• - 7 - Not a tesla

 

Cool. All you have to do is make sure that it's a Version 3, and that there are no other cars on the same branch if it's not, and that Tesla has not changed the rules one more time. Bullet trains for long distance travel are looking better every day.

 

It's not that drama filled. Much of the time - less than ½ of the super chargers are occupied. Use them during DriveTime / gridlock tho, it's at your own peril

But if for example, 4 of 10, or 5 out of 12 stalls are in use? You pick the unused branch. Plus - if your branch Is in use on Non-V3 stalls - say you're 'only' getting 50kW-60kW, that other Tesla takes off a minute later, bam - you're back up over 100kW.
Or - if you're one of those impatient always in our hurry people, & you see another branch go unoccupied - you take the whopping 30 seconds to unplug & move over. Been there done that.
The bad news, CCS typically only have one or 2 stalls TOTAL.
Superchargers on the other hand, will show on your screen how many stalls there are total - and how many are occupied. While driving through Vegas we would skip & go down the road another 20 miles on the same route to use a location where most stalls were not in use.
But if CCS is your preference - one-zees 2-zee stalls works for you .... enjoy. Good luck if they're not even working or the solo unit is off line or occupied which - has all too frequently been our experience. You can find out when you arrive.
In short - CCS is a good ½ decade behind the supercharger network - development wise. The reason CCS is increasing development slowly is because the legacy manufacturers don't give a rat's about EV charging Locations - whereas Tesla understands the importance - for when on those minor times you have to make an Interstate run. Remember? most people aren't doing cannonball runs every once or twice a month. If you ARE in that minority, you can pretty much figure out which network you need.
.

 

Sorry, should have posted this for you sooner.
Compare electric vehicles - EV Database
It's an European site. That means different names for trims in some cases, and WLTP for official figures. If you don't want to use metric, keep in mind Imperial is the only other option, so any value using gallons won't apply here. Fully Charged is partnered with them.

I was using it for DC charging rates, and hadn't been paying attention to the range estimates. The standard range Leaf has 149 miles under EPA, and 177 miles by WLTP. EV-database has their own range estimator.
"The figures are based on a model that we’ve developed and fine tuned over the years. Modelled figures are verified in practice as much as possible and then fed back into the model to further optimize the results." - https://fullycharged.show/blog/fully-charged-teams-up-with-ev-database-to-get-real-about-range/
They give estimates for mild and cold weather. Mild is 23C without A/C use; cold is at -10C with the heater on. The Leaf's combined mild range is 170 miles, and cold is 120 miles.
Nissan Leaf price and specifications - EV Database

All Leafs have DC charging standard. I assume CHAdeMO, the Nissan site doesn't say. Likely because the Ariya is going to use CCS in Europe and the US. Whenever you get DC chargers near you, they may not have CHAdeMO. Nissan going CCS here leaves Mitsubishi as the last brand using it here.

Your body has a better cooling system than a Leaf's battery. Lower charge rate means less heat generation. The longer range Leaf gets a faster one, because the rate per cell is reduced by their increased numbers. The Ioniq Electric's battery capacity and charge rate are around that of the Leaf's, but earlier MY's with the smaller pack had a charge rate 50% greater. Its pack had a higher voltage.

I don't think anyone would call a forward trunk a flaw.

Yes, a BEV platform could shift space for the frunk into the cabin. Less hood space does raise the question front crash design, but it is mostly about personal preference, not flaws.

How much of e-TNGA is a true dedicated BEV platform though? It was jointly developed with Subaru, who was once going to use their SGP for EVs, as it had been designed for ICE and EV drivetrains. Skateboard battery packs have been fitted into ICE platforms. The existence of a 'transmission' tunnel hump in the rear floor implies this platform isn't 100% BEV.